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sabbath
- Thread starter balasta boy
- Start date
Shermana
Heretic
You have problems with refraining from murder and theft? Get counseling.
Shermana
Heretic
You're the one who said you didn't agree to obey them, and now you're Ad homing the entire Israelite race.
WALL
Member
Are ya sure? Abe kept the commandments. Honest.
GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
Honest Abe heard Gods "voice" and so he kept His commandments
JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Also Gods sheep hear His voice.
DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God. [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Cant do a song and dance around above scripture. It is truly Gods 10 commandments
HEBREWS 3 [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that THEY COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.
Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)
EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.
Do you hear His "voice" today ole boy
Villager
Active Member
Who was his Levitical priest?
Villager
Active Member
So what is the advantage of keeping a sabbath?
Shermana
Heretic
What's the advantage in not defrauding someone if you can get away with it?
Why don't you try obeying one Sabbath and see if you feel a tangible sense of spiritual peace.
God gave the Sabbath Day to the Old Testament Israelites, for it was a time where they could rest their bodies one day out of seven. Also, during this time, they would be able to worship God as a family, and as a people, not having the responsibilities of work to interrupt. On the other hand, all the pagans up until the days of Constantine worked seven days a week, which is hardly conducive to ones physical or spiritual well-being.
What about the Sabbath for Christians? Well read in Hebrews 4:9-10, "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His"(NIV). When Christ died on the cross, He made it possible for all true Christians to enter spiritual rest from their labours, i.e. from trying to climb or work their own way to heaven, which is impossible. Therefore, for the Christian, the Sabbath Day is spiritual rather physical. For if Gentiles were required to keep the Sabbath Day (Saturday), then when the apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15) to discuss the Gentiles and what they needed to do and obey, they would have surely mentioned keeping the Sabbath. Furthermore, none of the letters of Paul, Peter, James or John mention the keeping of the Sabbath day. Moreover, Paul wrote in Coll. 2:16-17, "Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath Day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality however, is found in Christ."
What about the Sabbath for Christians? Well read in Hebrews 4:9-10, "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His"(NIV). When Christ died on the cross, He made it possible for all true Christians to enter spiritual rest from their labours, i.e. from trying to climb or work their own way to heaven, which is impossible. Therefore, for the Christian, the Sabbath Day is spiritual rather physical. For if Gentiles were required to keep the Sabbath Day (Saturday), then when the apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15) to discuss the Gentiles and what they needed to do and obey, they would have surely mentioned keeping the Sabbath. Furthermore, none of the letters of Paul, Peter, James or John mention the keeping of the Sabbath day. Moreover, Paul wrote in Coll. 2:16-17, "Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath Day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality however, is found in Christ."
Shermana
Heretic
So I guess when Jesus said "Strive for the narrow gate" he meant "Take it easy, don't actually listen to what I said about obeying the commandments, that's all nonsense anyway, who am I kidding?". And when he said "Pray that your flight doesn't take place on Winter or a Sabbath day", he was saying there's no possible way a Christian could find shelter on the Sabbath when they're fleeing, in any town whatsoever.
But hey, who needs Paul and Jesus to agree with each other anyway.
And perhaps I should get into some of the scholars who consider Acts 15 to be a later addition. Funny how murder and theft are not on that list, I guess I see why many Christians have felt entitled to do those. And still, how many actually restrain from eating blood? I'd bet you'd eat a blood sausage with no problem. So using Acts 15 involves either adding more commandments or accepting that Murder and theft and defrauding is not something Christians need burden themselves with refraining from.
James may not mention Sabbath specifically but his letter's implication is keeping the whole of the Law. So does 1 John, which calls anyone who refuses to obey the commandments (referring to the actual Mosaic commandments) but claims to know Christ a "liar".
But hey, who needs Paul and Jesus to agree with each other anyway.
And perhaps I should get into some of the scholars who consider Acts 15 to be a later addition. Funny how murder and theft are not on that list, I guess I see why many Christians have felt entitled to do those. And still, how many actually restrain from eating blood? I'd bet you'd eat a blood sausage with no problem. So using Acts 15 involves either adding more commandments or accepting that Murder and theft and defrauding is not something Christians need burden themselves with refraining from.
James may not mention Sabbath specifically but his letter's implication is keeping the whole of the Law. So does 1 John, which calls anyone who refuses to obey the commandments (referring to the actual Mosaic commandments) but claims to know Christ a "liar".
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Villager
Active Member
There's advantage to changing subjects, anyway.
Is there scriptural warrant to believe in this tangible sense? Or is it an unworthy tale?
Are we to take it, after two useless 'answers', that sabbatarians have no reason for their belief that they are willing to admit to?
Shermana
Heretic
Calling my answers "useless" and accusing me of changing the subject instead of even attempting to notice the corrolation of following other commandments like not defrauding proves my case that the Antinomians are pick and choosers and refuse to answer relevant questions that may disprove their claims. You can't answer my question, so you accuse me of changing the subject.
Also, what exactly about my answer is an "Unworthy tale", I simply asked you to try it and see if you notice anything. That is too much for you to do apparently. What part about asking you to try a Sabbath and reporting the tangible effect is an "unworthy tale"? Where is the "tale" here? The unworthy tale here would be you saying my answer is "useless". Do you know what "Tale" means? It certainly doesn't mean "A simple question".
The advantage is that you won't be considered a "liar" as 1 John refers to those like you, and you won't go to hell with all the other liars who claim to know Christ but will be told to get lost you "doers of Lawlessness". Is that better? Now answer my question on the defrauding.
Also, what exactly about my answer is an "Unworthy tale", I simply asked you to try it and see if you notice anything. That is too much for you to do apparently. What part about asking you to try a Sabbath and reporting the tangible effect is an "unworthy tale"? Where is the "tale" here? The unworthy tale here would be you saying my answer is "useless". Do you know what "Tale" means? It certainly doesn't mean "A simple question".
The advantage is that you won't be considered a "liar" as 1 John refers to those like you, and you won't go to hell with all the other liars who claim to know Christ but will be told to get lost you "doers of Lawlessness". Is that better? Now answer my question on the defrauding.
We are to take it that Anti-Sabbatarians are the ones who change the subject, pick and choose, accuse people of "unworthy tales" when they simply ask them why they don't try it for themselves, and refuse to answer questions about whether there's benefit to not defrauding which is also part of the Law which they mostly think they don't have to follow. What we are to take is that antinomians are in fact "Liars" as 1 John calls them, and that Jesus says you will be rejected as a "Doer of Lawlessness".
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Villager
Active Member
To sum up, the Bible does not say that keeping a Sabbath gives a sense, 'tangible' or otherwise, of spiritual peace. Though how a sense of peace could ever be tangible is a matter of conjecture.
What does the Bible actually say about peace? At an early stage in their history, the Israelites were to be told, "May the Lord 'turn his face towards you and give you peace.'" That was not on a sabbath, or for a sabbath. The Lord's peace was for the whole time, for the whole life of the Israelite. So the purpose of the seventh-day sabbath was for something else, not peace.
What of the peace of the new Israel, the church of Jesus, those temples of the Holy Spirit? Did the mind of Christ need a sense of tangible peace?
'May the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times, and in every way.' 2 Th 3:16
Those who accept the mind of Christ, at all times, have peace, at all times. They have neither need nor desire for a special time of peace. If they were to have such a thing, it would show that they were not at peace in the ordinary times.
The Christian is in Christ, living in the sabbath rest of God in Christ, all the time, or is not at peace at all. The peace of God, which transcends all understanding, keeps emotions and thoughts under guard, through Christ, who has overcome death and all condemnation.
felikimbible
New Member
Yeah.the sabbath is Gods institution that was intended to worship and praise Him.Its an important issue, one, because God reflected it into the ten commandments that govern all humanities.However,there has been a lot of debate abt which day is the original sabbath day.Without getting into much confusion,the original sabbath day is Saturday.Anybody can get that from the Judaism coz they are the original sabbath keepers from the beginning.Two,when Christ was in this world,he kept the 7th day sabbath.Matt 4;3-8.ref verses include;exodus 20;8,Exo 31;12.
felikimbible
New Member
the sabbath is Gods Holy institution.It has to be observed by all Christians.It has been revealed all through the bible from Genesis to the Revelation.Its doubtlessly reflected in the ten commandments to show its authenticity.If God rested on the sabbath and Christ observed it,then all Christians should not take it for granted.