Saddam is gone!

[Buttercup]

Not if Anderson Cooper has anything to do with it. He is making me want to retch. He uses this as a platform to spout anti American propaganda at every chance, and on CNN he has many people to help him out. The only one who is telling it like it is, is an Iraqi national, who is not backing down, and is pointing out that Saddam is responsible for the death of 2 MILLION Iraqi's.

Cooper can't go 3 sentences without pointing out that people are still dying in Iraq, and even had the gall to ask this gentleman (the Iraqi mentioned above, whose name I can neither type nor pronounce) whether the Iraqi people are better off now, rather than under Saddam's rule. The Iraqi Ambassador very quickly stated "I can assure you that nobody who said that ever lived in Saddam's Iraq."

Say what you want about WMD's, ties, or not, with al Quaeda, etc. . . . but there can be little doubt that the world is better off without Saddam Hussein in charge of Iraq.

B.

That's funny MSWG, I'm watching the same show as you are and don't have the same feelings at all. The Iraqi national is talking right now....and Cooper completely agrees with him. It's very obvious Cooper thinks Saddam should be dead.

 

[Mathematician]

I think this thread should be moved into a debate forum. It's hard to comment on this major event without laying down different opinions.

 

[silvermoon383]

Yeah, I'm beginning to agree. I didn't want a debate but it looks like I've got one.

Mods, could you please move this over for me?

Thanks.

 

[Sunstone]

Yeah, I'm beginning to agree. I didn't want a debate but it looks like I've got one.

Mods, could you please move this over for me?

Thanks.

Thread moved to General Debates.

 

[DrWurm]

I too voice disapproval towards the death penalty.

Saddam has been a footnote for most of this war, anyway. My concern has been with Osama since 9/11.

Yes. He did terrible things but the fact that we entered his country under faulty evidence leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It's not like he actually attacked the US directly. In my mind this war needs to be about reducing the terror threat in the US, not spreading democracy elseware. It's like our government's mind has wandered completely off topic. We're not here to police the world. We're here to protect ourselves.

If the UN orders a strike against saddam, fine. But the US needs to find its place. Bush is like a modern Teddy Roosevelt firing cannons because they're toys in a fairytale cowboys and indians war. This isn't some easy "go in and kick arse war".

Who's the enemy? Is it the guy defending his home from the country that blew up his house? is it the child who picked up an AK because his father died fighting? Is it a brainwashed teenager that straps on TNT because he thinks he'll go to heaven for it? Every day we spend in Iraq we fertilize the hostility that can be found there. We're growing more and more terrorists. We've planted the seed of hate for a new generation of iraqis. Of course they're attacking us, we just came into their house without permission. They haven't actually tried to strike back at us. We're the aggressors, they're the defenders.

Meanwhile, North korea's guns are leveling towards the western hemisphere. And what have we done about that? We've made sure that Kim can't buy any Ipods or harleys. Freaking Brilliant. Kill the washed up old dictator, and ground the young unstable one with nukes.

/end rant

 

[dawny0826]

I don't feel sorry for Saddam Hussein, really.

I do however, pray that he died at peace with God.

 

[jacquie4000]

I feel sorry for any death, But he had to pay a price and it is not like one can turn their head at all the has happened by his hand.
I always worry what the outcome of his death will bring about by radicals.
Reading through the post it seems so people have already gone to extremes ...such as dancing on his body and such...that is just disrepect. Yes he destroyed many lives but the man is dead let it rest.

 

[jamaesi]

I don't celebrate any death.


All I am thinking about right now is the most recent post from the blog Baghdad Burning.

Why make things worse by insisting on Saddam's execution now? Who gains if they hang Saddam? Iran, naturally, but who else? There is a real fear that this execution will be the final blow that will shatter Iraq. Some Sunni and Shia tribes have threatened to arm their members against the Americans if Saddam is executed. Iraqis in general are watching closely to see what happens next, and quietly preparing for the worst.
This is because now, Saddam no longer represents himself or his regime. Through the constant insistence of American war propaganda, Saddam is now representative of all Sunni Arabs (never mind most of his government were Shia). The Americans, through their speeches and news articles and Iraqi Puppets, have made it very clear that they consider him to personify Sunni Arab resistance to the occupation. Basically, with this execution, what the Americans are saying is "Look- Sunni Arabs- this is your man, we all know this. We're hanging him- he symbolizes you." And make no mistake about it, this trial and verdict and execution are 100% American. Some of the actors were Iraqi enough, but the production, direction and montage was pure Hollywood (though low-budget, if you ask me).

That is, of course, why Talbani doesn't want to sign his death penalty- not because the mob man suddenly grew a conscience, but because he doesn't want to be the one who does the hanging- he won't be able to travel far away enough if he does that.

Maliki's government couldn't contain their glee. They announced the ratification of the execution order before the actual court did. A few nights ago, some American news program interviewed Maliki's bureau chief, Basim Al-Hassani who was speaking in accented American English about the upcoming execution like it was a carnival he'd be attending. He sat, looking sleazy and not a little bit ridiculous, his dialogue interspersed with 'gonna', 'gotta' and 'wanna'... Which happens, I suppose, when the only people you mix with are American soldiers.

He's dead. So what? So what good does it do? We're showing him he's been a bad boy by killing him? That's what he wanted, now he himself and his followers have held him up as a martyr- more violence will come of this. Real justice would be locking him up in some hole in the ground prison where he could live out the rest of his life with lots of time every day to think about what he's done to get himself there.

 

[Sunstone]

Get This: Some bimbo politician just declared that Saddam's execution will help to bring about democracy in Iraq.

My corn starch theory is looking better and better, I tell you!

 

[jamaesi]

Get This: Some bimbo politician just declared that Saddam's execution will help to bring about democracy in Iraq.

My corn starch theory is looking better and better, I tell you!

Obviously this is a show of the "More One Says Somethings the More True it Becomes" Theory of Making a Fool of Oneself.

 

[Buttercup]

Real justice would be locking him up in some hole in the ground prison where he could live out the rest of his life with lots of time every day to think about what he's done to get himself there.

I agree....I would have preferred to see him rot away in a cell for the rest of his days. I don't think it would have caused him to change his mind about how he got there however.

 

[standing_alone]

I don't think it would have caused him to change his mind about how he got there however.

No, but at least then he wouldn't have gotten the easy way out...

 

[Sunstone]

Obviously this is a show of the "More One Says Somethings the More True it Becomes" Theory of Making a Fool of Oneself.

Spot on! The politicos know the more they repeat a lie the more believable it becomes to many people.

 

[Sunstone]

Does anyone believe Saddam's death will improve conditions in Iraq?

 

[Booko]

Real justice would be locking him up in some hole in the ground prison where he could live out the rest of his life with lots of time every day to think about what he's done to get himself there.

It's really no time to be flip, but the first thing that came to mind was an image of that spider hole and those cans of spam...

 

[jamaesi]

I agree....I would have preferred to see him rot away in a cell for the rest of his days. I don't think it would have caused him to change his mind about how he got there however.

I honestly don't care if he's repentant or not- the point of the justice system is to deal justice (and also rehabilitation, but Saddam is not one of those needing that as there would be NO reason for him to be free ever again)- and justice is not letting him off and making him gleeful at becoming a martyr.

 

[Mathematician]

Hello, DrWurm. Peace to you.

I can tell you're just as frustrated by events as I am, though I think it's important to inform you that this forum tries to shy away from profanity, even if it is composed of asterisks.

Now that this thread has been placed in the General Debates Forum (thank you, Sunstone), I feel that I can truly open my chest about everything I feel is wrong, including American imperialism, which I feel is not only the biggest threat to Americans but also global peace. So be prepared to read a long rant from this biased source.

________

The man executed today was just another one of our failed puppets from the Cold-War era. Looking back now I think we can all agree that Saddam should have have never been given American and European aid, no matter how much bad feelings existed between us and Iran. A lot of the problems we now face in the Middle East can be contributed to the Reagan and Bush administrations pushing for the inevitable defeat of Soviet communism, and Clinton not having the gonads (or dare I say intellect?) to stand up to the Congress and either seriously commit our efforts on the rising problems in the Middle East, or get out of the area entirely.

Our Cold War theology should have died with the Vietnam War, but instead we insisted on giving Osama Bin Ladin and his "freedom fighters" aid just to repel the Soviet forces, whom likely would have decimated (what would later become) the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the early to mid 80s if the US and UK had remained isolated from the incident. Gorbachev did not come into power until 1985; almost 6 years after the conflict first began.

The Cold War Era, I feel, was domestically our best time period for change (women's rights, discrimination, right to protest), but our whole foreign policy towards communism has now brought us into another time of tension when it could have been avoided. Saddam could have been avoided, Osama could have been avoided, 9/11 could have been avoided... if we had just woken up and realized Empires are only magnificent for a little while but then they encounter a whole load of problems!

I'm not saying America is entirely responcible for what happened, but we did fuel a lot of this by kicking the Soviets out and thinking we could take their place. We didn't learn from when we took over the Philippines.

Saddam did atrocious things, but if we didn't help his military, if we (Europe and America) didn't supply him with weapons, there's a good chance Iran would have stopped Saddam long before we *needed* to (coughs loudly).

We now have to clean up the mess made by Cold War theology, and the War on Iraq and executing Saddam are not solutions. Our current president, I feel, is just stilling our country's progress -- probably setting us back in the long run. And I'm not even talking about the moral aspects to sending our men off to war.

Lesson to be learned from WW2 and Cold War: The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend.

 

[jamaesi]

Does anyone believe Saddam's death will improve conditions in Iraq?

Not at all.

 

[Buttercup]

Does anyone believe Saddam's death will improve conditions in Iraq?

Nope, in fact they could worsen for the short term especially.

 

[Buttercup]

I honestly don't care if he's repentant or not- the point of the justice system is to deal justice (and also rehabilitation, but Saddam is not one of those needing that as there would be NO reason for him to be free ever again)- and justice is not letting him off and making him gleeful at becoming a martyr.

I was commenting on your sentence about him having time to think about why he was there. I wouldn't have cared what he was thinking.....only that he was serving his time.

And yes, I do wonder how many of his followers now think of him as a martyr. But, they could have thought the same thing even if he was locked in a cell for the rest of his life. If people are going to think him worthy of that status his dying today wouldn't matter. He would have been a living martyr to them if he lived on.