Salvation is a totally FREE GIFT: (the pearl)

[javajo]

I know what you believe, javajo. May I ask how you came by these beliefs? Were you raised in a Christian family? Are you from/ do you live in a country in which Christianity is the dominant religion? Odds are, one or both these things are true.

While my parents are Christians now, they were catholic when I was young and I rarely attended Mass. I was saved at a very young age not by Catholics and despite that my parents were not Christians at the time. While I do live in the U.S., I must say in my late teens/early twenties in the late 70's/early 80's, I was pretty wild and I did question everything. I enjoyed my rather hedonistic, decadent partying lifestyle (I'm a little tamer now), and I'd hoped to even disprove Christianity and take up another religion. I studied other philosophies and religions and dabbled in some N. Amer. Indian religion and even some almost occult type practices. But after all my searching, studying and experiences, I came to believe without a doubt the Bible is God's Word and Jesus Christ is my personal savior.

Now, imagine that you were born in Pakistan. You would probably have been raised a Muslim in a Muslim-dominated culture. While you may have the chance to hear the Gospel, it would be much harder for you to accept it than it would be for someone who was born in the United States of a family who takes him to church every Sunday. How is that fair, that some people get a better chance of accepting the gift of salvation than others?

I understand what you are saying and see your point. I do not know how it is fair. I think (true) Christianity was spread by preaching and people had a choice whether or not to accept it. Islam was spread by the sword, believe or die, and it hasn't changed much as today that is still the practice and if one tries to leave Islam they risk death, too.

Consider it another way: What if Islam is the true path to salvation? Afterall, you stated above that your eternal destiny is something you don't want to get wrong. Surely you have considered the idea that some other plan of salvation may be the true path, and yet you have rejected those paths in favor of Christianity. Would you not feel like you had been cheated out of eternal life if Islam really was the true path? You have tried to worship and obey God with an honest and open heart, and yet you chose the wrong religion. Why didn't you choose Islam? Why do the majority of people in the Middle East choose Islam? If Islam is the true path to salvation, would you not think that those born in the Middle East have a leg up on picking the right religion?

Again, I see where you are coming from and you make good sense. I did examine Islam and for me it came up short, way short. Despite the fact that many are forced to be Muslims in the Middle East, there are many coming to Christ despite the persecution and difficulty.

Birthplace and subsequent environment is such a strong factor in predicting which religion a person will choose to follow. What an arbitrary way to be saved!

Yeah, I hear you, I see what you're saying. Still, I think its a shame that the Middle East is where Christianity was born, and then Islam had to use force to change the area. Thankfully, with the internet and satellites and all, people have more access to information so they may examine the various religions for themselves and decide for themselves what to believe, even if they may have to do so in secret.

 

[javajo]

i think when one has regret is when one pays for their short comings...
living true to ones truth/integrity is all we can do in order to be at peace with ones self.


let me ask you this, i am assuming the ocean represent life
and jesus is the captain of the boat that offers salvation.
if this is so, then why did jesus put us in treacherous waters knowing of our limited abilities in the 1st place? from what i gather (from the bible) we are all sinners, meaning we want to do things our way...it is our predisposition, the way we were created, for all have sinned and fall short...so i don't understand how you can see yourself in the middle of the ocean struggling to survive without realizing that god put you there in the first place....how did you get there?
by choice or were you created with limited abilities in an indifferent and harsh world?

I think choice is the word. He wanted to give us a choice. I do not know God's mind. I know we are in the predicament. I trust God that in his wisdom he orchestrated his marvelous plan and in the ages to come we will understand it more clearly and love him all the more.

can you, in practical terms explain what; we do nothing but float there , means?
i am assuming you are going to respond with 'faith'
but i understand faith as an adverb...faith describes an action, so really i don't see how floating there is being idle.

I believe when we accept the offer of help, we simply trust the best we can, the guy in the boat to help us. We literally do nothing, we just let him save us. I know people want to make trusting Christ a 'work', but the Bible separates it from work. When we work the wages are earned, when we simply trust in Christ's finished work on the cross, we accept salvation as a gift. The Bible says we have ceased from our own 'works' and have entered into his rest.

 

[javajo]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9"

Saved from what?

See post #65.

 

[Adonis65]

Not saying that. I believe, and all the following is only my belief, once someone has trusted Christ, Christ gives them his righteousness in place of their own 'filthy rags' righteousness so when God looks at us, he sees Christ's righteousness and Christ's blood having washed away-paid for all our sins, and not as you say 'an unclean place'. I am saying that after a person trusts Christ they don't suddenly, completely and forever stop sinning, try as they might. For we still have a sinful nature we battle and as long as we live in this corrupt and vile body of death, we will still struggle with sin. This is part of growing 'in grace', that is we are saved forevermore, yet we now begin the growth. We are babes in Christ growing to maturity. Some grow more and faster than others but we all grow even if it is not super obvious to others. A believer will grow. A believer will sin. We have power to overcome sin, but we will sin to some degree nonetheless. We should try not to sin of course and we will be much happier. Some of us find that out the hard way. One day soon our redemption will be complete when our bodies are transformed (I believe at the Rapture 1 Thess. 4, 1 Cor. 15) and then we will be completely sinless and immortal and glorified and all that good stuff. Again, that's just my belief.

Do you trust the Savior when he urges us to keep His commandments?

 

[javajo]

Do you trust the Savior when he urges us to keep His commandments?

Of course, but not in order to get or keep saved, but because I am freely saved and loved and I know doing what God says is right is always the best thing for me. I still stumble and fall in my walk, but he picks me up and never leaves me nor forsakes me, only loves, guides and corrects me along the way.

 

[Adonis65]

Of course, but not in order to get or keep saved, but because I am freely saved and loved and I know doing what God says is right is always the best thing for me. I still stumble and fall in my walk, but he picks me up and never leaves me nor forsakes me, only loves, guides and corrects me along the way.

I'm curious to learn how you came to know that you were saved. Were you told by God in a dream, or did the heavens open up and an angel came down and manifested this to you?

 

[javajo]

I'm curious to learn how you came to know that you were saved. Were you told by God in a dream, or did the heavens open up and an angel came down and manifested this to you?

I had better confirmation than dreams and angels, I had God's (who cannot lie) Word. 1 John 13 says, These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. When one believes in, trusts in Jesus they may now know they have eternal life by God's promise. Not only are we saved eternally, we have eternal security and assurance of our salvation. That is my belief from my study of the Bible. I just take God at His Word.

 

[PolyHedral]

God's (who cannot lie)

Says who?

 

[zemelo.franky]

Says who?

He-who-must-not-be-named.

 

[javajo]

Says who?

Its in the Bible. I believe Paul wrote it as he was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. Titus 1:2

Also 1 Samuel 15:29, Psalms 89:35. Hebrews 6:18 says it is impossible for God to lie.

 

[zemelo.franky]

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. Titus 1:2

Thus it is written, and is true. Be excellent to each other.

 

[Adonis65]

I had better confirmation than dreams and angels, I had God's (who cannot lie) Word. 1 John 13 says, These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. When one believes in, trusts in Jesus they may now know they have eternal life by God's promise. Not only are we saved eternally, we have eternal security and assurance of our salvation. That is my belief from my study of the Bible. I just take God at His Word.

I take God at His word, too. Have you ever considered that "believing" might be a word of action? In other words, if one believes in Jesus Christ, then one ought to believe that he must keep God's commandments, or his belief is naught. What do you think?

 

[PolyHedral]

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. Titus 1:2

And who told him that? I mean, the only person I can think of would be God, and that's a problem.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I would say, belief in a specific person and the work he did on the cross to pay a debt we could not pay and a debt he didn't owe.

But we didn't owe it either. The mere fact that the biggest kid on the block decides that you should give him something no more makes you indebted to him than the fact that a mugger wants your wallet means you "owe" it to him.

And while the person who saves you from a mugger is worthy of praise, the mugger himself is worthy of condemnation. And if the two are actually the same person, well, I don't think we need to thank someone who "saves" us from himself. God the Son only offers the solution after God the Father burdens us with the problem.

 

[zemelo.franky]

But we didn't owe it either. The mere fact that the biggest kid on the block decides that you should give him something no more makes you indebted to him than the fact that a mugger wants your wallet means you "owe" it to him.

Morality is the puny invention of man. If you value your life, then you "owe" it to him. Don't let the invisible walls of society make you feel too safe. It's a house of cards, just like every empire before it.

And while the person who saves you from a mugger is worthy of praise, the mugger himself is worthy of condemnation.

That's reducing centuries of class struggle to a childish black and white issue.

And if the two are actually the same person, well, I don't think we need to thank someone who "saves" us from himself. God the Son only offers the solution after God the Father burdens us with the problem.

We burden ourselves with the problem; with both the charlatans and the idols.

 

[javajo]

I take God at His word, too. Have you ever considered that "believing" might be a word of action? In other words, if one believes in Jesus Christ, then one ought to believe that he must keep God's commandments, or his belief is naught. That is my belief.

I think when we repent, that is change our mind about how we are sinners and how we may be saved through faith in Christ and are freely saved, that we have a new attitude about and power over sin which helps us to grow and keep God's commandments.

 

[javajo]

But we didn't owe it either. The mere fact that the biggest kid on the block decides that you should give him something no more makes you indebted to him than the fact that a mugger wants your wallet means you "owe" it to him.

And while the person who saves you from a mugger is worthy of praise, the mugger himself is worthy of condemnation. And if the two are actually the same person, well, I don't think we need to thank someone who "saves" us from himself. God the Son only offers the solution after God the Father burdens us with the problem.

I believe when God created Adam and Eve they were sinless, but they chose to sin and passed that sin-nature down to all of us and we do sin so its not God's fault. I know I am a sinner and I know the penalty. Thankfully, God loved me enough to provide a savior and I have trusted in him. That is my belief.

 

[zemelo.franky]

I believe when God created Adam and Eve they were sinless, but they chose to sin and passed that sin-nature down to all of us and we do sin so its not God's fault. I know I am a sinner and I know the penalty. Thankfully, God loved me enough to provide a savior and I have trusted in him. That is my belief.

If god made people and the people sinned, then god made people knowing that they would sin and punished them for it anyway.

 

[javajo]

If god made people and the people sinned, then god made people knowing that they would sin and punished them for it anyway.

I don't pretend to know God's ways but I trust he knows what he is doing and it is for our good ultimately. Paul said it like this:

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Romans 11

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe when God created Adam and Eve they were sinless, but they chose to sin and passed that sin-nature down to all of us and we do sin so its not God's fault. I know I am a sinner and I know the penalty. Thankfully, God loved me enough to provide a savior and I have trusted in him. That is my belief.

We are each responsible for our own actions. Even if Adam and Eve had existed, their actions are not my fault. OTOH, if God was to decide of his own volition to punish me - for whatever reason - he would bear the responsibility for this, as well as the blame, if warranted.