Salvation

[URAVIP2ME]

What is the golden rule?

Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount [Matt 5-7] provided us with what has become or considered a 'rule of conduct' commonly called the Golden Rule. Jesus says: all things, therefore, that you want men to do to you,
you also must likewise do the them.
Living by that Golden Rule involves positive actions in doing good to and for others, treating them as you would like to be treated.

Jesus illustration of the 'Good Samaritan' is a good example of how to widen out in one's love for another.

Practicing the Golden Rule would not necessarily be easy because Jesus said to go in through the narrow gate because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

So being spiritually or religiously mislead is possible because Jesus went on to warn about false prophets or false clergy in sheep's clothing, but inside are ravenous wolves.
Good trees can be recognized by good fruit.
The bad fruits of false teachers and false religious leaders and followers can be recognized by bad conduct and bad teachings and actions not in harmony with Jesus teachings and example.

 

[Wotan]

"But are they true or genuine believers?'

Are there any true Scotsmen?

 

[Misty]

Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount [Matt 5-7] provided us with what has become or considered a 'rule of conduct' commonly called the Golden Rule. Jesus says: all things, therefore, that you want men to do to you,
you also must likewise do the them.
Living by that Golden Rule involves positive actions in doing good to and for others, treating them as you would like to be treated.

Jesus illustration of the 'Good Samaritan' is a good example of how to widen out in one's love for another.

Practicing the Golden Rule would not necessarily be easy because Jesus said to go in through the narrow gate because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

So being spiritually or religiously mislead is possible because Jesus went on to warn about false prophets or false clergy in sheep's clothing, but inside are ravenous wolves.
Good trees can be recognized by good fruit.
The bad fruits of false teachers and false religious leaders and followers can be recognized by bad conduct and bad teachings and actions not in harmony with Jesus teachings and example.

Treating others as you would wish to be treated is good advice.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes, do you believe we are under the Constitution of the Mosaic law today?

According to Romans [10v4] Christ is the end of the law.

The law [Rom 3v20] showed the law made sin manifest.
No one could live up to the law except for Jesus.
The law [Hebrews 10v1] was just a shadow [not the reality] of good things to come. The law was temporary until Christ.
Christ's one sacrifice is sufficient that is why Christians do not do that as they did under the law covenant or contract with ancient Israel.

Not all believe that the New Testament is relevant to them.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

What is the golden rule?

Do it to others before they do it to you?

 

[autonomous1one1]

What is the golden rule?

Treating others as you would wish to be treated is good advice.

Greetings Misty. If you are interested, every religion has some form of the golden rule: The Golden Rule in World Religions.

Golden rule quotes from various religions.

Here are a few expressions from the first of these references - The Universality of the Golden Rule in the World Religions
Christianity All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:1
Confucianism Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
Analects 12:2
Buddhism Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
Udana-Varga 5,1
Hinduism This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
Mahabharata 5,1517
Islam No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
Sunnah J
udaism What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
Talmud, Shabbat 3id
Taoism Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien
Zoroastrianism That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

 

[URAVIP2ME]

autonomouslone1-

Very interesting post ^above^.

Did you notice the use of the word 'not' often being used?

Jesus uses all positive words.

Remember also that Jesus gave us a new commandment that we love one another;
just as Jesus loved us, that we also love one another. By that Christ-like love all will know that you are my disciples, if you have that love among yourselves.
-John 13vs34,35;15vs12-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not all believe that the New Testament is relevant to them.

Why do you think that one would believe the NT is not relevant to them?

 

[Wotan]

Why do you think that one would believe the NT is not relevant to them?

Because its a myth?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because its a myth?

Why would one think NT [Jesus] is a myth?

If everyone on earth lived by Jesus teachings, what kind of world would surround us today? What do you find wrong with Jesus Sermon on the Mount?

 

[Wotan]

Why would one think NT [Jesus] is a myth?

If everyone on earth lived by Jesus teachings, what kind of world would surround us today? What do you find wrong with Jesus Sermon on the Mount?

Because there is zero evidence for ANY supernatural event anywhere in the Roman Empire at ANY time other than tales told by those with an interest in inventng such events.

 

[Wotan]

"What do you find wrong with Jesus Sermon on the Mount?'

What has that got to do with the price of coke in Bolivia?

 

[Mahacandra]

Why would one think NT [Jesus] is a myth?

If everyone on earth lived by Jesus teachings, what kind of world would surround us today? What do you find wrong with Jesus Sermon on the Mount?

Not to speak for Wotan, but the whole "Jesus can defy the laws of nature, rendering all coherent and reason-based understanding of the world meaningless" probably begins the list...

I haven't read the sermon on the mount in some time, but as I can recall, the only problem I have with it is it's resting truth on a God instead of logic, and offering reward as ever lasting life in a far away paradise. As far as the morals of it go, I can't think of anything I'm really against. It's just the metaphysics and the lack of reason.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not to speak for Wotan, but the whole "Jesus can defy the laws of nature, rendering all coherent and reason-based understanding of the world meaningless" probably begins the list...
I haven't read the sermon on the mount in some time, but as I can recall, the only problem I have with it is it's resting truth on a God instead of logic, and offering reward as ever lasting life in a far away paradise. As far as the morals of it go, I can't think of anything I'm really against. It's just the metaphysics and the lack of reason.

Do we know all about the laws of nature?
Didn't Jesus base his beliefs on logic and reasoning on Scripture?
Jesus often referred to or quoted Scripture to make his point and as final authority on matters.

At the time of Adam's loosing paradise, as far as time frame is considered, paradise was far away starting at the time of Adam's sin. In a nut shell, time was needed for mankind to be born and choose how they want to live.
We are now living at the time frame of 2nd Tim [3vs1-5,13] the last days of badness on earth before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth starting with the living on earth sheep-like ones of Matt [25v32]. Those people can remain alive on earth and have the prospect of everlasting life on earth on a beautiful paradisaic earth. So what Adam undid, so to speak, Jesus will undo the damage Satan and Adam caused.

If you were God having the ability not only to create but regulate weather conditions wouldn't you do so? What we see surrounding the earth today is the result of Adam choosing independence from God. What we see earth wide is proof that man can not successfully direct his step. Mankind needs God to step in and bring to ruin those ruining the earth as Rev [11v18 b] brings out.

If not God's kingdom government [Dan 7vs13,14; 2v44; Isa 9v7;11v4] as the solution of mankind's problems, then what do you see that will succeed?

 

[javajo]

I have never been able to grasp the idea of salvation by faith, and you're saved now. That makes no sense. You are supposed to be saved so you can make it into heaven. How can you know that you're saved if you haven't made it yet?

It depends on who you put your faith in. If you are depending on yourself to "make it into heaven", then you cannot be sure, because you (we) can fail. However if one puts their faith in Christ's finished work on the cross, then if he fails we are in trouble. But since it is FINISHED, we need not worry.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I have never been able to grasp the idea of salvation by faith, and you're saved now. That makes no sense. You are supposed to be saved so you can make it into heaven. How can you know that you're saved if you haven't made it yet?

Did you ever read Matthew 24v13?______
Jesus says the one that endures until the end is the one that will be saved.

One can either endure until the end of one's life dying faithful as Jesus and Job died faithful. Or one can endure until the time of Jesus 'glory' [Matt 25vs31,32]
At that time Jesus separates, not the dead, but the living on earth. The favored living ones can remain alive on earth and continue living on earth saved right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth with the prospect of having everlasting life in view on a beautiful paradisaic earth. That is why the great crowd of people of Revelation [7vs 9,10,14] are saying 'salvation' because they are saved through the coming great tribulation of Matthew 24v21.

So not all go to heaven. There are those as Jesus promised the humble meek that will inherit earth [Psalm 37vs11,29,38]. Jesus fulfills the promise to Abraham [Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18; Rev 22v2] that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed. Blessed with everlasting life in human perfection of sound mind and body as Adam originally had at his creation before his downfall.

Before this happens Jesus links those saved ones with telling others about the good news of God's kingdom at Matt [24v14] before the end comes of all badness on earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[javajo]

Jesus says the one that endures until the end is the one that will be saved.

Most theologians I have studied agree that Jesus is talking about Tribulation Saints who, if they endure to the end will be saved from physical death, not about us enduring in faith for salvation.

One can either endure until the end of one's life dying faithful...

If you read my post just above yours, you can see, what my belief is, its not us holding out faithful, but that we have faith in the finished work of Christ, thus we have full assurance of our salvation, no matter how miserably we may fail. It is not "the perseverance of the saints", but "the preservation of the saints". God saved us, God keeps us, we have put our faith in Christ and his finished work, a once and for all time commital, that cannot be reversed. So, we can say we have been saved and know it, for it all depends on him, not on us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"What do you find wrong with Jesus Sermon on the Mount?'
What has that got to do with the price of coke in Bolivia?

Missionary friends found conditions in LaPaz not very good.
So I could imagine the price of coke in Bolivia could be expensive.
Solomon wrote that man has dominated man to his injury.
Jesus' Sermon on the Mount showed we should not be dominating but living by the Golden Rule. We should all be mild [Matt 5v5].

Political circumstances today show where we are in the stream of Bible prophecy such as Daniel [2v42]. Daniel describes a rise and fall of world powers represented by a huge metal statue. Each metal represents a different kingdom or world power coming down in value or growing weaker and weaker in value or worth until it reaches the toes. Those feet and toes are so fragile because they are made of iron mixed with clay. Iron and clay do not stick together so the statue is now so weak that it can no longer stand up for itself. In other words, the nations are so fragmented today such as with religious terrorism destabilizing society that this system is now at its end times of badness on earth before God's kingdom government in the hands of Christ represented by a large 'stone' [Dan 2vs23,35,45] comes crashing into the feet bringing the statue [world powers] to an end replacing them with with 1000-years of Peace on Earth under God's messianic kingdom. Isa 9v7; 11v4
I guess one could say we are now at the time of the toe nails!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Most theologians I have studied agree that Jesus is talking about Tribulation Saints who, if they endure to the end will be saved from physical death, not about us enduring in faith for salvation.
If you read my post just above yours, you can see, what my belief is, its not us holding out faithful, but that we have faith in the finished work of Christ, thus we have full assurance of our salvation, no matter how miserably we may fail. It is not "the perseverance of the saints", but "the preservation of the saints". God saved us, God keeps us, we have put our faith in Christ and his finished work, a once and for all time commital, that cannot be reversed. So, we can say we have been saved and know it, for it all depends on him, not on us.

Not quite sure why you say just the saints? Are the sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32 the same as Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40?

There is a distinction between the sheep and the brothers.
In referring to the saints 1st Cor 15v50 says flesh and blood [physical] can not inherit the kingdom of God.

The sheep that do good to Jesus 'brothers' gain everlasting life. The sheep can remain alive and keep on living right into the start of Jesus thousand-year reign over earth. The 'upright' remain- Proverbs 2vs21,22; Psalm 37vs11,29,38.

Jesus referred to a 'little flock' [Luke 12v32] that are given the kingdom.
Please compare Daniel 7v18.
Those that are not part of that 'little flock' at John [12v32] are called 'other sheep'. So, can't the sheep of Matt 25 also be part of the other sheep which will inherit the earthly realm of God's kingdom?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If you read my post just above yours, you can see, what my belief is, its not us holding out faithful, but that we have faith in the finished work of Christ, thus we have full assurance of our salvation, no matter how miserably we may fail. It is not "the perseverance of the saints", but "the preservation of the saints". God saved us, God keeps us, we have put our faith in Christ and his finished work, a once and for all time commital, that cannot be reversed. So, we can say we have been saved and know it, for it all depends on him, not on us.

If can not be reversed, then how do you explain Matthew 12v32
and Hebrews 6vs4-6; 10v26?

If they have not endured to the end [Matt 24v13] of this world of badness or the end of their life, and have committed the unforgivable sin how can they be pardoned?

Wasn't Paul concerned about being a castaway? -1st Cor 9v27