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Same Sex Marriage

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
Romans 1
Greeting

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you. For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you— that is, that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith, both yours and mine. I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

The Epistle of Romans is the Apex of the gospel of God's grace, expounded in the greatest detail in all of Scripture. Within Romans chapter 1, you will find the thesis of the Epistle of Romans which is in red text. Like the rest of Scripture, Romans chapter 1 needs to be understood in context of the Book of Romans. The Book of Romans also needs to be understood within the context of all of Scripture. Here is the central theme of the entire Bible.

2 Corinthians 4
The Light of the Gospel

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God,we do not lose heart. But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servantsfor Jesus' sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

The Ministry of Reconciliation

Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconcilingthe world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Cor 5
 
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Hospitaller

Seminarian
Same Sex Marriage:




I want to hear and discuss different views in regards to same sex marriage. I would like to hear from all religious and secular views. As a Christian, the Scripture teaches that all sex outside of marriage is sin. The Apostle Paul tells us if we have no self-control as a single Christian, then we should marry. An obedient Christian is called to remain celibate until they are married. For the heterosexual or homosexual Christians, they are to remain celibate until they are married. So, what are your views in regards to same sex marriage? I have not made a conclusion either way; therefore, I want to hear all sincere views.

No same sex marriage. when God created everything, he created one and only one of each gender to start things off, Adam and Eve. That obviously means that marriage between man and woman is correct, and since gay and lesbian marriage is the opposite, then that means that those are incorrect. Logic. Then again, thats just my view...
 

gzusfrk

Christian
as long as he thinks he's doing the right thing, it's okay.
I dont think you meant that the way it is written
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
No same sex marriage. when God created everything, he created one and only one of each gender to start things off, Adam and Eve. That obviously means that marriage of man and woman is correct, and since gay and lesbian marriage is the opposite, then that means that those are incorrect. Logic. Then again, thats just my view...

Thanks for sharing your view. I see that you are Catholic. Does your view line-up with the Roman Catholic Magisterium (Pope and bishops in communion with him)? To get a broader Biblical view, we have to consider the fall of mankind, and how we are born into this world in enmity with God, broken spirituality and physically. I know the Roman Catholic Church once considered divorce to be a mortal sin, but have changed that view later on. The following passage might be helpful to look deeper into the issue.

Matthew 19
Teaching About Divorce

Now when Jesus had finished these sayings, he went away from Galilee and entered the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. And large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
No same sex marriage. when God created everything, he created one and only one of each gender to start things off, Adam and Eve. That obviously means that marriage between man and woman is correct, and since gay and lesbian marriage is the opposite, then that means that those are incorrect. Logic. Then again, thats just my view...

There's a big hole in your logic. God only created two genders (other than hermaphrodites, who are actually not that rare) therefore every relationship requires one of each--it doesn't follow. God created people of different races; does it follow that each relationship needs one of each? Or one left-handed person and one right-handed person?
 

Hospitaller

Seminarian
Thanks for sharing your view. I see that you are Catholic. Does your view line-up with the Roman Catholic Magisterium (Pope and bishops in communion with him)?

Yes, the RCM believes that there same-sex marriage is immoral, although they've reached that conclusion in many other ways that I don't know about... not just the logical reasoning.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No same sex marriage. when God created everything, he created one and only one of each gender to start things off, Adam and Eve. That obviously means that marriage between man and woman is correct, and since gay and lesbian marriage is the opposite, then that means that those are incorrect.
So only things that some hypothetical original man and woman might have done can be considered correct behaviour for us today?

No, not so much.

Then again, thats just my view...
I hope so.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yes, the RCM believes that there same-sex marriage is immoral, although they've reached that conclusion in many other ways that I don't know about... not just the logical reasoning.
How does your "logical reasoning" reconcile the idea that God put in place heterosexual marriage as the "correct" living arrangement with a celibate, unmarried priesthood?
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Cor 6

Matthew 19
Teaching About Divorce

Now when Jesus had finished these sayings, he went away from Galilee and entered the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. And large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Lust

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. Matthew 5

If you interpret 1 Cor chapter 6 apart from the gospel, then all of those who divorced in the church (50% to 65%) and all who have looked at a woman lustful (99% of the men in church) cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Now look at 1 Cor chapter 6 in regards to sexual immoral, idolaters, thieves, greedy, drunkards in this verse. Now 100% of the church is included in this verse who will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you have not fit into one of these categories at a point in your life, then you have no need of a Savior because you are self-righteous.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
frankly, i didnt get what you just asked...
Okay... here's what you said. Note the part I put in bold:

when God created everything, he created one and only one of each gender to start things off, Adam and Eve. That obviously means that marriage between man and woman is correct,

If marriage between a man and woman is "correct", then a man remaining unmarried is "incorrect". Did you mean to imply that Catholic priests have chosen an incorrect lifestyle?
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
No same sex marriage. when God created everything, he created one and only one of each gender to start things off, Adam and Eve.
You know that's just a creation myth right? All ancient cultures had different ones, and they all thought they were true. Didn't make them so.
 

Hospitaller

Seminarian
Okay... here's what you said. Note the part I put in bold:



If marriage between a man and woman is "correct", then a man remaining unmarried is "incorrect". Did you mean to imply that Catholic priests have chosen an incorrect lifestyle?

no, when did i say that remaining celibate and unmarried was wrong? Jesus was unmarried and celibate.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
no, when did i say that remaining celibate and unmarried was wrong? Jesus was unmarried and celibate.
You said that God showed the "approved" mode of living in creating the first people as a heterosexual couple. You used this as your rationale to explain why same-sex marriage is wrong: it doesn't fit this "correct" model. However, remaining unmarried doesn't fit the model either.

If the Creation story can be used to condemn same-sex marriage, it can be equally used to condemn a life of celibacy. If you don't want to condemn a life of celibacy, that's fine - I'll accept your retraction. However, that takes away some of your ammunition against same-sex marriage.
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
Yes, the RCM believes that there same-sex marriage is immoral, although they've reached that conclusion in many other ways that I don't know about... not just the logical reasoning.

Do you mind sharing the official Roman Catholic source such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church to support your posting? I'm not sure if the Catholic Magisterium made such an official statement, but I could be wrong. Here is a link to the Catholic Catechism:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
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