Same Sex Marriage

[Christian Pilgrim]

You forgot to add ignorance of 4.5billion years of evolution despite overwhelming evidence.

Are you one of those people who believes we are higher than animals and that we were never monkeys?

Please,let's stay on the thread topic of same sex marriage.

 

[Green Gaia]

Hospitaller,

Those who hold the religious idea that marriage should be “one man, one woman,” have a right to their religious beliefs. All churches are free to choose who they marry as their religious doctrine dictates, but every American should not be subject to their religious laws. One of the founding principles of this country is the idea of religious freedom. We should be all free to worship, or not, as we choose. This idea relates to the application of religious laws as well. A person cannot be held accountable or persecuted by the government if they choose not to follow the laws of any religion. The founding fathers of our country understood this. Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1776, "We have no right to prejudice another in his civil enjoyments because he is of another church." Meaning, a person should not be treated unfairly by the government if they hold differing religious beliefs. By not allowing same gender marriage on the grounds that it goes against the religious doctrine of some, same gender couples are in essence being treated unfairly by the government for not following a religious law.

So, I don't care what your religion says about homosexuality or same sex marriage. Nor should I because I am not of your religion and I shouldn't be forced to follow its laws or dictates. My government should extend the same rights, privileges and obligations to me that it extends to you, plain and simple. You don't have to like it, but as a freedom loving American (if indeed you are) you should support it.

 

[gzusfrk]

ok the logic... heaven is a holy place.no sin or evil can get in so god(he's so smart).made himself a human.we call him jesus. when god became human he linked all of mankind to himself.adopted, when he died he got to go to heaven because he never sinned . so in a since flesh made it to heaven .through that path, his way ,you to can get there to... john 1 verse one" and the word became flesh and dwelt amoung us"

 

[Autodidact]

no, when did i say that remaining celibate and unmarried was wrong? Jesus was unmarried and celibate.

O.K. but try for some logic here. You're arguing that a homosexual way of life is wrong because it's not heterosexual. Neither is celibacy. They're both exactly equally NOT heterosexual.

 

[darkendless]

Please,let's stay on the thread topic of same sex marriage.

Such values are a result of core beliefs and they impact on a persons ability to make decisions. From my experience people who reject same sex marriage based on the bible only also have a hard time accepting evolution. Why, who knows. Maybe they take the bible a little too seriously.

I think the "one man, one woman" arguement should have been left in the dark ages. We're better than that. Our freedom should not be based on religious ideals, particularly because not all of us are religious.

It frustrates me (and im not a gay person) to see certain religious people impose their ideals on the rest of us, even if they think they're helping us. Its an awful excuse. Atheists might think they're helping Christians by burning down churches, but that doesn't make it right does it?

The main proponents of same sex marriage should concern themselves with internal problems before they police the globe with their dogma.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Hospitaller,

Those who hold the religious idea that marriage should be “one man, one woman,” have a right to their religious beliefs. All churches are free to choose who they marry as their religious doctrine dictates, but every American should not be subject to their religious laws. One of the founding principles of this country is the idea of religious freedom. We should be all free to worship, or not, as we choose. This idea relates to the application of religious laws as well. A person cannot be held accountable or persecuted by the government if they choose not to follow the laws of any religion. The founding fathers of our country understood this. Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1776, "We have no right to prejudice another in his civil enjoyments because he is of another church." Meaning, a person should not be treated unfairly by the government if they hold differing religious beliefs. By not allowing same gender marriage on the grounds that it goes against the religious doctrine of some, same gender couples are in essence being treated unfairly by the government for not following a religious law.

So, I don't care what your religion says about homosexuality or same sex marriage. Nor should I because I am not of your religion and I shouldn't be forced to follow its laws or dictates. My government should extend the same rights, privileges and obligations to me that it extends to you, plain and simple. You don't have to like it, but as an a freedom loving American (if indeed you are) you should support it.

As a staunch Calvinist biblical Christian, I complete agree with this posting. Same sex marriage should be civil law in all 50 states. When the issue comes to my state, I will be supporting same sex marriage as a staunch hard-core Christian with the biblical defense of the golden rule, and loving my neighbor as myself. If Christian morals on sex should be the law of the land, then Christians should require laws that make premarital sex and adultery a crime enforced by our courts. Did you know that some churches taught it was sin to marry someone from a different race?

 

[Green Gaia]

ok the logic... heaven is a holy place.no sin or evil can get in so god(he's so smart).made himself a human.we call him jesus. when god became human he linked all of mankind to himself.adopted, when he died he got to go to heaven because he never sinned . so in a since flesh made it to heaven .through that path, his way ,you to can get there to... john 1 verse one" and the word became flesh and dwelt amoung us"

I think you forgot the logic part....

 

[Hospitaller]

You forgot to add ignorance of 4.5billion years of evolution despite overwhelming evidence.

Are you one of those people who believes we are higher than animals and that we were never monkeys?

um... yea. When in Genesis is says that on the first day God created the heaven and earth etc., that doesnt literally mean a day. it could have been millions, maybe even billions or more or less years. there is no time for God.

 

[Hospitaller]

Do you mind sharing the official Roman Catholic source such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church to support your posting? I'm not sure if the Catholic Magisterium made such an official statement, but I could be wrong. Here is a link to the Catholic Catechism:

English Translation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church with Search Utility

Certainly

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament."

It goes on about chastity...

 

[Hospitaller]

Hospitaller,

Those who hold the religious idea that marriage should be “one man, one woman,” have a right to their religious beliefs. All churches are free to choose who they marry as their religious doctrine dictates, but every American should not be subject to their religious laws. One of the founding principles of this country is the idea of religious freedom. We should be all free to worship, or not, as we choose. This idea relates to the application of religious laws as well. A person cannot be held accountable or persecuted by the government if they choose not to follow the laws of any religion. The founding fathers of our country understood this. Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1776, "We have no right to prejudice another in his civil enjoyments because he is of another church." Meaning, a person should not be treated unfairly by the government if they hold differing religious beliefs. By not allowing same gender marriage on the grounds that it goes against the religious doctrine of some, same gender couples are in essence being treated unfairly by the government for not following a religious law.

So, I don't care what your religion says about homosexuality or same sex marriage. Nor should I because I am not of your religion and I shouldn't be forced to follow its laws or dictates. My government should extend the same rights, privileges and obligations to me that it extends to you, plain and simple. You don't have to like it, but as a freedom loving American (if indeed you are) you should support it.

thats alright. no one has to believe, God gave us free will.

 

[Green Gaia]

thats alright. no one has to believe, God gave us free will.

So then you agree that civil marriage for same sex couples should be legal?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Certainly

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament."

It goes on about chastity...

That's odd - you seem to have missed the part where it says that Christians have a duty to make sure that same-sex civil marriage is prohibited for non-Christians. It's in there somewhere, right?

Right?

 

[Hospitaller]

You said that God showed the "approved" mode of living in creating the first people as a heterosexual couple. You used this as your rationale to explain why same-sex marriage is wrong: it doesn't fit this "correct" model. However, remaining unmarried doesn't fit the model either.

If the Creation story can be used to condemn same-sex marriage, it can be equally used to condemn a life of celibacy. If you don't want to condemn a life of celibacy, that's fine - I'll accept your retraction. However, that takes away some of your ammunition against same-sex marriage.

man, i just said Jesus Christ lived a celibate and unmarried life. if being chaste and unmarried is wrong, then God did something that was wrong, and therefore he wouldn't be God, and we wouldnt even be here in the first place!

thats how its ruled out.

 

[Hospitaller]

That's odd - you seem to have missed the part where it says that Christians have a duty to make sure that same-sex civil marriage is prohibited for non-Christians. It's in there somewhere, right?

Right?

i'd look for it, but hey, its a BIG book, and its not in the surrounding PPs...

 

[Hospitaller]

So then you agree that civil marriage for same sex couples should be legal?

no, because were called to help others do the right thing.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

man, i just said Jesus Christ lived a celibate and unmarried life. if being chaste and unmarried is wrong, then God did something that was wrong, and therefore he wouldn't be God, and we wouldnt even be here in the first place!

thats how its ruled out.

Then you're inconsistent.

Here's my take on it: if the example of Jesus Christ Himself shows that the Christian point of view allows for "correct" arrangements besides heterosexual marriage, your original claim, i.e. that Adam and Eve serve as an example of what is "correct", is flawed to the point that it's useless.

 

[Green Gaia]

no, because were called to help others do the right thing.

You mean shove your religion down others' throats? Why should I be forced to live by your religion's laws?

I've already found the right thing, thank you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

i'd look for it, but hey, its a BIG book, and its not in the surrounding PPs...

Actually, I was being sarcastic. I'm relatively sure that there's no such command in the Catechism.

no, because were called to help others do the right thing.

Are you also called to "help others do the right thing" in other ways? For example, are you "called" to prohibit non-Christian forms of worship?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Certainly

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament."

It goes on about chastity...

Thanks for sharing this. But this does not address the issue of civil law preventing same sex marriage. Christians have a different standard than the world. For example, if we used Christian standards to base our civil laws on sex, then divorce, pre-martial sex, fornication, pornography, and adultery would have to be illegal. We would also need legislation to punish those who look at women lustfully, therefore committing adultery of the heart. The ironic thing is that our pastors, priests, and church congregations would be guilty of breaking those Christian laws in the same degree as the unbelieving world. We are all sinners living in a fallen world. Who has never looked at a women with lust? Do you see my point? Do you have any official Roman Catholic doctrine that would prevent Catholics from supporting same sex marriage as civil law? The references above are instructions for Roman Catholic Christians too. It is not binding to unbelievers or non-Catholic Christians. I believe Scripture is silent in regards to same sex marriage for unbelievers and believers alike. I think the issue of abortion is not the same as same sex marriage since there is a life at stake.

 

[darkendless]

no, because were called to help others do the right thing.

Imposing your morals on others is not a very loving thing to do. You're denying same sex couples the right to make their own decisions. WHat gives you the right to make decisions for others?