@OneThatGotAway Kudos and when I can frubals.http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/members/onethatgotaway-20501.html
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Same Sex Marrige By a Church.
- Thread starter Archer
- Start date
In this case the topic of the thread is the Christian church not what any other religion wants to do. Though informitive it is not really relevant to the Christian church. That being said it is very valuable information.
True, I was getting off topic.
No problem and please keep the information flowing. I enjoy absorbing information about other beliefs.
McBell
Unbound
*yawn*
Using the current definitions for the word 'fornication' merely leads to your non-Biblical, private interpretation.
From the Websters 1828 Dictionary:
Fornication
1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2. Adultery. Mat 5.
3. Incest. 1 Cor 5.
4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chr 21. Rev 19.
As we can see, the BIBLE defines fornication as also being idolatry.1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2. Adultery. Mat 5.
3. Incest. 1 Cor 5.
4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chr 21. Rev 19.
Care to try again?
OASN:
If you wish for me to stop pointing out your non-Biblical non-sense, stop posting non-Biblical non-sense.
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
I think that ancient Jewish, Christian, and Islamic societies are excellent insight on how to view same-sex marriages. I believe that have helped benefit society better.
Even your definition covers adultery.
I will go further.the 1990 edition of the dictionary of word origins ISBN 1-55970-133-1
Fornication Latin fornix denoted an 'arch' or 'vault' and hence came to be used in the late republican period vaulted underground dwellings where the dregs of roman society - tramps, prostitutes, petty criminals, etc - lived. Early Christian writers home in on the prostitutes, and employed the term with the specific meaning 'brothel', whence the verb fornicari 'have elicit sexual intercorse' and it's derivitive fornicatio, source of English fornication.
The New Strong's Expanded Dictionary of Bible Words ISBN 0-7852-4676-2:
page 103 under Fornication
zanah, to commit adultery
taznuwth, harlotry
ekporneuo, to fornicate
porneia, sexual immorality
porneuo, to indulge unlawful lust
Any questions? these definitions are what was being spoken about as they are from the original languages and from that time frame.
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For context:
“The Greek word for ‘fornication’ (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. …In Biblical usage, ‘fornication’ can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28).” (Dr. Henry M. Morris)
John 18:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1 Cor. 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Cor 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1 Cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1 Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1 Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
2 Cor 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:20-21 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Rev 17:2,4 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Now I did not put these biblical references with their surrounding text (too much space) but it is referenced and if you care to take a read you will find I am not incorrect in defining fornication as a sexual act in the original post that I was criticized about.
“The Greek word for ‘fornication’ (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. …In Biblical usage, ‘fornication’ can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28).” (Dr. Henry M. Morris)
John 18:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1 Cor. 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Cor 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1 Cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1 Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1 Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
2 Cor 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:20-21 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Rev 17:2,4 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Now I did not put these biblical references with their surrounding text (too much space) but it is referenced and if you care to take a read you will find I am not incorrect in defining fornication as a sexual act in the original post that I was criticized about.
McBell
Unbound
I never said it didn't.
Seems that you do not understand what is wrong with your statement:
Hear you are saying that infidelity is the only reason for divorce.
I have shown that idolatry is ALSO an accepted reason for divorce.
Thus making your statement: "There is no room for divorce in marriage other than infidelity" un-Biblical.
Yes, actually.
Why do you ignore the definitions that the BIBLE uses?
So you are going to ignore the way the Bible itself defines the word?
How, exactly, is that Biblical?
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it get past it's own ego.
I never said it didn't.
Seems that you do not understand what is wrong with your statement:Hear you are saying that infidelity is the only reason for divorce.
I have shown that idolatry is ALSO an accepted reason for divorce.
Thus making your statement: "There is no room for divorce in marriage other than infidelity" un-Biblical.
Yes, actually.
Why do you ignore the definitions that the BIBLE uses?
So you are going to ignore the way the Bible itself defines the word?
How, exactly, is that Biblical?
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it get past it's own ego.
There is no room for divorce in marriage other than infidelity. Is from Jesus though he used the word fornication (meaning sexual infidelity: marital unfaithfulness or an instance of it). Matt 19:9 using different translations:
ESV: And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.
NIV: I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.
NASV: And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.
MSG: Jesus said, "Moses provided for divorce as a concession to your hard heartedness, but it is not part of God's original plan. I'm holding you to the original plan, and holding you liable for adultery if you divorce your faithful wife and then marry someone else. I make an exception in cases where the spouse has committed adultery."
AMP: I say to you: whoever dismisses (repudiates, divorces) his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery, [a]and he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
NLT: And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.
KJV: And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
CEV: I say that if your wife has not committed some terrible sexual sin, [a] you must not divorce her to marry someone else. If you do, you are unfaithful.
NKJV: And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[a] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
There are a lot more but I think this get's to the point.
The definitions I gave were from a Bible dictionary yet you say that they are not Biblical? I gave the ISBN numbers of my reference materials. If you like I can scan the pages but I assure you nothing will differ from what I have put in my previous post.
I do understand what you were saying but in the context of this scripture you are wrong.
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1 Corinthians 7:10-17 (New American Standard Bible)
10But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband
11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.
16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
17Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk And so I direct in all the churches.
10But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband
11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.
16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
17Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk And so I direct in all the churches.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I assume someone might have brought this up. but to me the doctrine of allowing same sex marriage is already existing in the same concept and doctrine which allows Christians to eat pork and not keeping the real Sabbath (Saturday).
The new testament though taking many things and making them akkowable still speaks agains homosexuality and therfpre against same sex marriage. You have presented the closest thing to a legitimate argument thus far.
You can not find one that is generally accepted and in print. I looked.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Archer,
Since the thread is under General Religious category would like to state that though am not familiar with the Bible it is high time that all marriages should be now conducted under law of the country and religion should have no role to play in regards to *MARRIAGES* of all kinds; is a personal opinion.
Love & rgds
Since the thread is under General Religious category would like to state that though am not familiar with the Bible it is high time that all marriages should be now conducted under law of the country and religion should have no role to play in regards to *MARRIAGES* of all kinds; is a personal opinion.
Love & rgds
blackout
Violet.
jesus never ONCE is recorded as having said anything either for or against,
or even anything about homosexuality at all.
it must have been a very pressing matter of great importance to him.
perhaps his deciples--ie followers-- should follow his lead.
just an idea. (and not a very original one at that)
I agree insomuch that I have said the same thing in this thread. Secular culture needs to honor what they accept and condone. If you say a man should be able to marry a man then that is fine, provide for it outside of religion.