Same Sex Marrige By a Church.

[fantome profane]

Paul was given the right by Christ.

This is your interpretation, and it is a perfectly valid one. But the question is what if a hypothetical church doesn’t agree with you.

Here is a riddle to ask your self. Is a Christian Church still a Christian church if they follow the teachings of Jesus but reject Paul? Is a Christian Church still a Christian Church if they follow the teaching of Jesus but do not demand that their congregants follow every word in the Bible?

Now I understand that a hypothetical church like this would not be the kind of church you would belong to. I understand that you would not agree with them and you would think they were wrong. But if they follow the teachings of Jesus are they still a Christian church?

You believe that Paul was given the right by Christ. But who says this other than Paul himself? And it has already been pointed out that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

 

[jnm66]

and by the way, you can prove the bible wrong with the bible when you find passages that contradict eachother, just as paul's passages against homosexuality contradict the passage 9-10ths posted which states all love as godly. Speaking of which, are you actually going to respond to his post, I mean legitimately respond rather than simply dodging his point

For the most part-the Bible has been found to be 99% consistent over a period of about 1600 years,within the context of all the different authors-yes we should expect some differences....different styles,perspectives and audiences all preclude this,however....differences ARE NOT contradictions-there is a plausible and intellectyual answer to all supposed contradictions....if not seen now-will be seen as the Lord see's fit for man to understand.....

 

[jnm66]

Please be so kind as to present the verse that commands that same sex couples are not to be married.

Ok if you are looking for the verse"Thou shall not marry the same sex." Nope i havent seen that one but.....as i have seen throughout the Bible homosexuality is labled as an abomination-and as sin and detestable etc...Romans Corinthians etc...so also wherever marriage is mentioned it is between man and woman.
So sorry-no matter what it is considered sinful and wrong...(not my words)
No amount of political correctness will change it.
However....did anyone ever stop to think why it is considered sinful and an abomination?? I think because then you cannott populate the earth...(be fruitful and multiply)

 

[challupa]

However....did anyone ever stop to think why it is considered sinful and an abomination?? I think because then you cannott populate the earth...(be fruitful and multiply)

Which is no longer relevant so why the problem? It's not like we need more people. Less would be great!

 

[jnm66]

This is your interpretation, and it is a perfectly valid one. But the question is what if a hypothetical church doesn’t agree with you.

Here is a riddle to ask your self. Is a Christian Church still a Christian church if they follow the teachings of Jesus but reject Paul? Is a Christian Church still a Christian Church if they follow the teaching of Jesus but do not demand that their congregants follow every word in the Bible?

Now I understand that a hypothetical church like this would not be the kind of church you would belong to. I understand that you would not agree with them and you would think they were wrong. But if they follow the teachings of Jesus are they still a Christian church?

You believe that Paul was given the right by Christ. But who says this other than Paul himself? And it has already been pointed out that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

The rejection of Paul wouldnt work-why because the Bible is inerrant and Paul's teachings were God inspired...
Not everyone can follow the Law-that is why Christ was here.
Christ came to fulfill the law....

 

[jnm66]

Which is no longer relevant so why the problem? It's not like we need more people. Less would be great!

Haha-how true!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ok if you are looking for the verse"Thou shall not marry the same sex." Nope i havent seen that one but.....as i have seen throughout the Bible homosexuality is labled as an abomination-and as sin and detestable etc...

So is eating shellfish. So is contact with a menstruating woman. So is a woman teaching a man.

However....did anyone ever stop to think why it is considered sinful and an abomination?? I think because then you cannott populate the earth...(be fruitful and multiply)

Seeing how Paul writes in the Epistles that everyone who can stand it should stay unmarried, I think this a pretty crappy argument that doesn't agree well with the Bible.

 

[fantome profane]

The rejection of Paul wouldnt work-why because the Bible is inerrant and Paul's teachings were God inspired...
Not everyone can follow the Law-that is why Christ was here.
Christ came to fulfill the law....

As I said to Archer, that is your interpretation. You believe that Paul’s writing were “God” inspired. That is fine, I am not going to argue the point other that to say that some churches might hypothetically disagree. Some Christians might hypothetically disagree.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The rejection of Paul wouldnt work-why because the Bible is inerrant and Paul's teachings were God inspired...

Ah... so, I'm sure that if I were to visit your church for a Sunday service, I wouldn't hear a woman's voice the whole time, would I?

 

[jnm66]

Ah... so, I'm sure that if I were to visit your church for a Sunday service, I wouldn't hear a woman's voice the whole time, would I?

Well you would if i attended church-i dont-but on that note...it only points to different roles prescribed from God....and Paul....it is in accordance to the way mankind entered into the world.....she just cant teach to where she has authority over man...she can still teach.

 

[Archer]

FOR THE LAST TIME YOU BUNCH OF PEOPLE HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT BIBLICAL THEREFORE SAME SEX MARRIAGE IS ALSO NOT TOLERABLE.

How many times must I show this? You are blind.

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

Now this is clear and concise. Not a thing added nothing taken away. You can call it BS with your PseudoQuasiLogic but there is nothing as direct (or indirect for that matter) as this anywhere that will condone Homosexuality and therefore since homosexuality is condemned same sex marriage is also condemned.

Nothing in the Bible anywhere condones it NOTHING.

For those who may have missed the point, I am only saying a Christian church can not by following it's own doctrine marry a same sex couple.

Now can anyone present a clear retort to this? NO it is not there.

Points of opinion are fine and dandy but there is nothing that can be presented that is from the Bible to counter what is in this post.

 

[jnm66]

FOR THE LAST TIME YOU BUNCH OF PEOPLE HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT BIBLICAL THEREFORE SAME SEX MARRIAGE IS ALSO NOT TOLERABLE.

How many times must I show this? You are blind.

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

Now this is clear and concise. Not a thing added nothing taken away. You can call it BS with your PseudoQuasiLogic but there is nothing as direct (or indirect for that matter) as this anywhere that will condone Homosexuality and therefore since homosexuality is condemned same sex marriage is also condemned.

Nothing in the Bible anywhere condones it NOTHING.

For those who may have missed the point, I am only saying a Christian church can not by following it's own doctrine marry a same sex couple.

Now can anyone present a clear retort to this? NO it is not there.

Points of opinion are fine and dandy but there is nothing that can be presented that is from the Bible to counter what is in this post.

True Archer-you are quoting the scripture....so i think what is going on with many churches today even allowing same sex ordination....Anglicans,Elca Lutheran and many other are giving in to it I wonder if it is only to acquire younger members or what??The Bible is clear on the subject i think....

 

[Archer]

This is your interpretation, and it is a perfectly valid one. But the question is what if a hypothetical church doesn’t agree with you.

Here is a riddle to ask your self. Is a Christian Church still a Christian church if they follow the teachings of Jesus but reject Paul? Is a Christian Church still a Christian Church if they follow the teaching of Jesus but do not demand that their congregants follow every word in the Bible?

Now I understand that a hypothetical church like this would not be the kind of church you would belong to. I understand that you would not agree with them and you would think they were wrong. But if they follow the teachings of Jesus are they still a Christian church?

You believe that Paul was given the right by Christ. But who says this other than Paul himself? And it has already been pointed out that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

Two people witnessed Paul's conversion.

Jesus was a Jew and under the law. Homosexuality was condemned by God and Jesus was perfect in his life as in death. Though he did not mention it his Vessel (Paul) did address this. This is the foundation of the christian faith.

 

[Archer]

True Archer-you are quoting the scripture....so i think what is going on with many churches today even allowing same sex ordination....Anglicans,Elca Lutheran and many other are giving in to it I wonder if it is only to acquire younger members or what??The Bible is clear on the subject i think....

It is sad but IMHO it is not the homosexuals seeking God that are the problem, it is the Churches.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

FOR THE LAST TIME YOU BUNCH OF PEOPLE HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT BIBLICAL THEREFORE SAME SEX MARRIAGE IS ALSO NOT TOLERABLE.

Odd way of putting things. Personally, I think it'd be more valid to say that homosexuality is not Biblical, therefore the Bible is not tolerable.

However, I do realize that there are a number of interpretations that are just as valid on their face as the one you've chosen, and many of them allow for same-sex marriage.And to point it out to you for the second time, "scripture alone" is not a doctrine that can be supported by scripture alone. It's not Biblical; does this mean that it's also not tolerable?

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

I always find it astounding when Christians cite this passage in defense of an anti-homosexual position. I think it says more about you than you realize when you try to claim that the problem with same-sex gang rape is the same-sex part and not the gang rape part.

Nothing in the Bible anywhere condones it NOTHING.

For those who may have missed the point, I am only saying a Christian church can not by following it's own doctrine marry a same sex couple.

And in doing so, you ignore the Bible. Read Romans 14. It's not your place to condemn the behaviour of other believers. It's between them and God. It's not your place to say who's Christian and who isn't.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

True Archer-you are quoting the scripture....so i think what is going on with many churches today even allowing same sex ordination....Anglicans,Elca Lutheran and many other are giving in to it I wonder if it is only to acquire younger members or what??

Personally, I think it's their way of putting in place the principles of the Gospel: that most important above all else are the virtues of love, mercy, justice and faithfulness. Everything else is secondary. IMO, prohibiting same-sex marriage goes against these virtues.

I realize you're trying to stay true to the Bible, but I think that in your desire to abide by the words of the Bible, you lost sight of its larger message.

 

[Archer]

Odd way of putting things. Personally, I think it'd be more valid to say that homosexuality is not Biblical, therefore the Bible is not tolerable.

However, I do realize that there are a number of interpretations that are just as valid on their face as the one you've chosen, and many of them allow for same-sex marriage.And to point it out to you for the second time, "scripture alone" is not a doctrine that can be supported by scripture alone. It's not Biblical; does this mean that it's also not tolerable?
I always find it astounding when Christians cite this passage in defense of an anti-homosexual position. I think it says more about you than you realize when you try to claim that the problem with same-sex gang rape is the same-sex part and not the gang rape part.

[/size]
And in doing so, you ignore the Bible. Read Romans 14. It's not your place to condemn the behaviour of other believers. It's between them and God. It's not your place to say who's Christian and who isn't.[/size]

Are you a member of a Christian Church? If not you really need not try and answer for a faith you do not follow. Again, you try and move away from the point I have made and thereby avoid the undeniable truth that I have presented. Is it for me to follow like a blind fool and go down the road to damnation?

 

[jnm66]

It is sad but IMHO it is not the homosexuals seeking God that are the problem, it is the Churches.

I think though Archer it isnt our place to judge-remember Christ was tolerant-he sat down with prostitutes,tax collectors and all kinds of lepers and "riff raff"
All things shall come thru God-i for one feel in the end God shall meter out the judgement....your knowledge of scripture is commendable....but be careful how you proceed to judge...remember God shall judge all....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you a member of a Christian Church? If not you really need not try and answer for a faith you do not follow.

Why's that? This thread's about the Bible. I may not be a Christian, but I can read.

Again, you try and move away from the point I have made and thereby avoid the undeniable truth that I have presented.

The fact that people keep on denying your "truth" says to me that it's not so undeniable.

Is it for me to follow like a blind fool and go down the road to damnation?

As long as you don't try to hurt people outside your own church, do what you want. You asked for responses. I gave them. It isn't a matter of whether your favourite interpretation of the Bible is against homosexuality; you've made it clear that it is. It's a matter of whether there are other interpretations out there that allow for same-sex marriage; the responses you've received have made it clear that there are... it just seems that you don't like them.

I don't know for sure, but I get the sense that your vitriol on this comes out of some belief that there's one and only one valid interpretation of the Bible... but that's just not true. The text supports a range of interpretations.

 

[Archer]

I am judging none I am asking if anywhere in the scriptures is it condoned (homosexuality). If it is not then same sex marriage should not be carried out by a Christian church.