Saving Yourself for Marriage?

[Pegg]

How does marriage make that any different?

because a marriage makes the woman the mans equal. He is accepting her as his own flesh (hence treating her as his equal)...the two become one.

However i know that most people dont view marriage that way....i take this view because this is Gods view & purpose of marriage. Its sad that more men dont adopt Gods view in this regard.

Also as he stated its all been consenting sex why can't the man be the one being taken advantage of?

of course that can be the case, im not debating that.

The act o marriage does not create respect, love, honor. Those are things present within the relationship, you can have all those things and never even marry.

no it doesnt, but if entered into with the right motive, then love respect and honor are very much the foundation of marriage. A man who loves and respects a woman wont seek to user her for sex. He shows he honours her by taking her as his life partner and as his equal.

 

[Pegg]

********.
I'm assuming I'm kinda unusual. I mean, of course, that's obvious. But in relation to this particular topic...

I have only ever slept with one woman. My wife. So that fits a religious morality code, I suppose. When we first slept together we weren't married (we are now...6 years, and 2 kids later).

Can you explain to me how 'husband' makes all the difference?

marriage is a contract, it was established by God as a means for a couple to be together. So from a religious viewpoint (and i know you may not be coming from a religious viewpoint) you have Gods recognition and approval to become partners. Therefore your sexual relations are legal and acceptable in Gods eyes.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

because a marriage makes the woman the mans equal. He is accepting her as his own flesh (hence treating her as his equal)...the two become one.

So are women inferior to men before marriage? You don't think all people are equal but I'm the one that degrades women?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Did anyone address what I showed that it's very smart economics for a Woman to remain virgin if she wants a higher chance of marrying a wealthy, high-status man? Or that virginity commands a huge price when prostituting it?

Everyone does love a virgin...

 

[Pegg]

So are women inferior to men before marriage? You don't think all people are equal but I'm the one that degrades women?

of course not

but you might find it hard to convince many men of that.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

of course not

but you might find it hard to convince many men of that.

So what do you mean by "marriage is a man accepting a woman as his equal"? I don't put myself above anybody. To think the only way I can show a woman I don't believe myself to be superior to her is to marry her is stupid... What's this special hatred you have towards men?

 

[Pegg]

So what do you mean by "marriage is a man accepting a woman as his equal"? I don't put myself above anybody. To think the only way I can show a woman I don't believe myself to be superior to her is to marry her is stupid... What's this special hatred you have towards men?

i could repeat myself again but i dont think you would get it anyway.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

marriage is a contract, it was established by God as a means for a couple to be together. So from a religious viewpoint (and i know you may not be coming from a religious viewpoint) you have Gods recognition and approval to become partners. Therefore your sexual relations are legal and acceptable in Gods eyes.

I'm happy to play a straight bat, and not go with the sarcastic comments. You're right...I wouldn't look from a religious viewpoint. But I'm interested in your opinion.

I wasn't married in a church, and I made sure there was no mention of God in my wedding. So does it still count?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

i could repeat myself again but i dont think you would get it anyway.

I genuinely want to understand what you're trying to say. So far it sounds like you degrade women more than I would ever think to.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I genuinely want to understand what you're trying to say. So far it sounds like you degrade women more than I would ever think to.

It's a mindset that sacralizes a woman's sexual purity, and disallows female sexuality from having it's own agenda for partnership and pleasure unless a male buys it...whether it's in the form of a dowry, a wedding ring, a few goats, or a handshake with the female's father.

It's why the only way for a woman to be "respectable", she must objectify her own reproductive system by keeping it "locked up" until a male has shown her he is worthy, or that he's "earned" it. And it's also why the only way for a man to show respect is to honor the economics of trading access to a woman's reproductive organs with the culture's nuptial trend.

IMO, it's degrading to women by eliminating her own autonomous decisions for her sexual pleasure. I think it's also degrading to men by enforcing sex to be equated with a form of currency, and not by encouraging them to see sexual intimacy as a pursuit to physical and psychological connection as two independent people.

Shermana brought it up, and it's telling, how people truly are willing to buy virginity. It buys into the patriarchal economy of obectifying a female's reproductive organs, and places some form of monetary value to it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

'buy virginity'

So, I know this isn't what you meant, but it's an interesting example of how people kid themselves, or each other.

Artificial hymen kit. Yes.... it's a thing.

Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation, Labioplasty and Hymenoplasty | Vaginoplasty-Labiaplasty-Hymenoplasty Articles - Cosmetic Gynecology Center of San Antonio

 

[4consideration]

Are there any advantages to not having sex before marriage? If so, what are those advantages? How important are they when compared to the advantages, if any, of having sex before marriage?

Well...I started out planning to save myself for marriage, until I finally admitted that I really didn't want to get married, maybe not at all, but certainly not young.

I think there was some advantage in that because I did not get pregnant, (which was a huge motivating factor, since I figured I was really fertile) especially at a time that my choice in guys was...well...I'm just glad I didn't get saddled with the ones I dated when I was younger.

I would say there are some advantages -- whether or not they outweigh the potential disadvantages, I think are a matter of personal opinion, beliefs, etc.

Some advantages I see:

1. not getting pregnant
2. not getting STD's
3. holding a view of sex as reserved for marriage (could apply as a foundational belief both prior to, and after marriage)

Some possible disadvantages of waiting until marriage that I see:

1. a person might change their mind and choose another life partner if they really loved a lot about a person, but found sex with them objectionable for some reason
2. if a person has a strong view that sex is always wrong prior to marriage, it seems to me that creates a strong potential for a person to rush into marriage, in order to fulfill the natural desire for sexual fulfillment. I think it is better to have sex prior to marriage than to get married to fulfill a requirement, in order to have sex.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

'buy virginity'

So, I know this isn't what you meant, but it's an interesting example of how people kid themselves, or each other.

Artificial hymen kit. Yes.... it's a thing.

Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation, Labioplasty and Hymenoplasty | Vaginoplasty-Labiaplasty-Hymenoplasty Articles - Cosmetic Gynecology Center of San Antonio

Precisely. :yes:

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

It's a mindset that sacralizes a woman's sexual purity, and disallows female sexuality from having it's own agenda for partnership and pleasure unless a male buys it...whether it's in the form of a dowry, a wedding ring, a few goats, or a handshake with the female's father.

It's why the only way for a woman to be "respectable", she must objectify her own reproductive system by keeping it "locked up" until a male has shown her he is worthy, or that he's "earned" it. And it's also why the only way for a man to show respect is to honor the economics of trading access to a woman's reproductive organs with the culture's nuptial trend.

IMO, it's degrading to women by eliminating her own autonomous decisions for her sexual pleasure. I think it's also degrading to men by enforcing sex to be equated with a form of currency, and not by encouraging them to see sexual intimacy as a pursuit to physical and psychological connection as two independent people.

Shermana brought it up, and it's telling, how people truly are willing to buy virginity. It buys into the patriarchal economy of obectifying a female's reproductive organs, and places some form of monetary value to it.

That really is a sad, antiquated viewpoint. Choice is the best part of being alive, and when you take that away, what do you really have left?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

'buy virginity'

So, I know this isn't what you meant, but it's an interesting example of how people kid themselves, or each other.

Artificial hymen kit. Yes.... it's a thing.

Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation, Labioplasty and Hymenoplasty | Vaginoplasty-Labiaplasty-Hymenoplasty Articles - Cosmetic Gynecology Center of San Antonio

... Word?

 

[Draka]

because a marriage makes the woman the mans equal. He is accepting her as his own flesh (hence treating her as his equal)...the two become one.

Woman is already man's equal. That you don't see yourself, or other women, as equal to men and in need of marriage in order to be accepted and be equal is more telling of you than of people who choose to engage in relations outside of a marriage.

However i know that most people dont view marriage that way....i take this view because this is Gods view & purpose of marriage. Its sad that more men dont adopt Gods view in this regard.

Actually, I would find it sad if more men would accept that view. It firmly places them upon a pedestal and tells them that women are not "equal" to them, they are pretty much just to be bought and paid for with a marriage contract. Then, magically, they are "equal" and they get the perverse pride of "popping the cherry". And if she doesn't still have hers? Well...guess she's "damaged goods", who would want that? :sarcastic

of course that can be the case, im not debating that.

You do seem to be debating, however, that it is the case that someone must be using someone if it is not within the bounds of magical lollipop marriage. As if signatures on a piece of paper redefine the interactions and emotions and so on involved in sex.

no it doesnt, but if entered into with the right motive, then love respect and honor are very much the foundation of marriage. A man who loves and respects a woman wont seek to user her for sex. He shows he honours her by taking her as his life partner and as his equal.

First, love, respect, and honor can exist outside the bounds of marriage as well.

Second, not every man who has sex with a woman outside of marriage is using her, AND a woman is just as capable as a man of using a guy for sex if that happens to even be the case.

And finally...again...a woman IS a man's equal.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That really is a sad, antiquated viewpoint. Choice is the best part of being alive, and when you take that away, what do you really have left?

I think it's sad, too.

I see nothing wrong with people who want to abstain until marriage due to their and their partners asexuality, or if the partners define their relationship under different terms and paradigms. I also see nothing wrong with celibacy freely chosen for the purpose of exploring all other things life has to offer. They want to wait. Awesome. More power to them.

I disagree with the assertion that they're more evolved, emotionally healthier, or that they're more respectful of each other if they abstain. I would say the emotionally healthy response to sex before marriage is informed consent, autonomy for all parties involved, and effective communication. Not ****-shaming.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I think it's sad, too.

I see nothing wrong with people who want to abstain until marriage due to their and their partners asexuality, or if the partners define their relationship under different terms and paradigms. I also see nothing wrong with celibacy freely chosen for the purpose of exploring all other things life has to offer. They want to wait. Awesome. More power to them.

I disagree with the assertion that they're more evolved, emotionally healthier, or that they're more respectful of each other if they abstain. I would say the emotionally healthy response to sex before marriage is informed consent, autonomy for all parties involved, and effective communication. Not ****-shaming.

I see nothing wrong with choosing abstinence either, though I will never for the life of me understand it. It's when people attempt to take that choice away through judgmental propaganda that I have a problem.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

i think it depends

For a worshiper of God, someone who knows Gods laws and strives to live by them, then no. I dont those things are possible.

but for someone who isn't concerned with what God thinks, then sure i guess. But that doesnt mean that it will be smooth sailing.

Likewise for waiting. People can have real problems integrating sex into their relationship post-marriage if their pre-marriage relationship was sex-free... especially if they've been raised to think of sex as something dirty or sinful.

IMO, in general, the marriage suffers if the couple waits.

 

[Me Myself]

Likewise for waiting. People can have real problems integrating sex into their relationship post-marriage if their pre-marriage relationship was sex-free... especially if they've been raised to think of sex as something dirty or sinful.

IMO, in general, the marriage suffers if the couple waits.

Do you have cases or studies or is this purely anecdotal?

Anecdotal is good of course, when one is thinking of potential problems, but I wondered how common the problem you describe is.