Schwarzenegger Vows Gay Marriage Bill Veto

[Theodore]

My first response after reading your responses is that I am not the one with the hate problem here. I do see a lot of projection, stereotyping and prejudice among all you “progressive” folks. However, the left is famous for this so I am not a bit surprised.

I have lived among a large population of gay people all my life. I have gay people in my family. I work with gay people every day. I have good friendships with a number of gay men and women.

To say that I hate or fear homosexuality is to grossly misinterpret what I have expressed in this thread. Many of you are trying very hard to paint me as hateful redneck or some kind of fundamentalist whacko. I am sorry you feel such a great need to vent your anger on somebody.

Let me restate my position:

I don’t believe that the state should sanctify homosexual marriage. I believe marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and God. I find it disturbing and offensive that gays are denigrating the sanctity of marriage by trying to distort it to their lifestyle. I will also vote against this and express my disapproval to my representatives at every opportunity.

 

[Jaymes]

Two loving people who happen to have the same bits 'defile marriage'? You insult me by saying that my partner and I having an audience of a few dear friends at a courthouse wedding would defile anything. Marriage isn't a covenant between man, woman, and God because people that don't believe in God can get married. Are they defiling this as well? Would you suggest we do a screening to make sure everyone that gets married believes in God?

You say you don't hate gays, yet you rejoice when their basic human rights are stepped on? If that is not hate, I fear what true hate is.

 

[Flappycat]

As much as I tried my darndest to read this whole thread, all I kept coming back to was hate and intolerance.

And a complete lack of empathy.

Posting smiley faces after an announcement that people would be denied the same rights as other people is about as tactful as someone giggling after calling another a 'n*gger-lover'.

It's really a bit worse. Imagine someone stealing your car and the authorities determining that you wouldn't drive it often enough or stylishly enough to deserve ownership of it, leaving it his possession. Bad enough, right? Think of how you'd react to seeing the thief riding around in it, honking the horn and laughing as he passes the bus that you're forced to ride to school or work. Now imagine asking him to return the car to you and getting "This is my car, though, just like all the others parked in my yard! The law says so, and the majority of my friends agree. You don't have a right to this car because it's too cool for someone like you. If you are really so confident in your ability to look good behind the wheel, why don't you drive a rental and pretend that you're cool enough to own a vehicle? Are you really so insecure about your ability to look cool that you need to have this car back? You're trying to play the victim on me, but you're just looking like a fool. Get away from me. You're such a pathetic drama queen that I almost feel sorry for you." In your mind's eye, watch him honk the horn, laugh, and drive away with something that is rightfully yours. How close were you to choking the life out of him? It isn't a perfect analogy, but it serves its purpose. Imagine how offensive some of us find civil unions.

 

[Darkdale]

I understand how people can think that homosexuality is immoral, just as men often find all kinds of things to be immoral. What I cannot understand is people thinking they have a right to make everyone else abide by their moral code. If Christians want to ban homosexual christian marriage ceremonies, that is up to them and I won't say a word; but to force non-Christians to follow a Christian moral code infringes upon the separation between church and state. America is a land of liberty, not religious oppression and that is what is going on here, religious oppression.

 

[Ardent Listener]

My first response after reading your responses is that I am not the one with the hate problem here. I do see a lot of projection, stereotyping and prejudice among all you “progressive” folks. However, the left is famous for this so I am not a bit surprised.

I have lived among a large population of gay people all my life. I have gay people in my family. I work with gay people every day. I have good friendships with a number of gay men and women.

To say that I hate or fear homosexuality is to grossly misinterpret what I have expressed in this thread. Many of you are trying very hard to paint me as hateful redneck or some kind of fundamentalist whacko. I am sorry you feel such a great need to vent your anger on somebody.

Let me restate my position:

I don’t believe that the state should sanctify homosexual marriage. I believe marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and God. I find it disturbing and offensive that gays are denigrating the sanctity of marriage by trying to distort it to their lifestyle. I will also vote against this and express my disapproval to my representatives at every opportunity.

Theodore,

I'm not gay, nor do I consider myself a member of the "left", and hold some rather conservative political and social views. Like you, I have friendships with gay, lesbian, and, in addition, transgender people.

I believe that the state can not "sanctify" any marriage. Webster definds sanctify as 1: to make holy. 2: to free of sin. Do you truly believe that the state, the goverment, can sanctify a marriage as defined above? Isn't that up to God to decide?

Like jonny, I believe that gay people should have the protection of the law (of man) that straight people have in their relationships.

I understand that many gay people also are seeking the approval of their relationships (marriages). That is understandable to me. But they need to realize that they can not force such approval. That can only come from within.

I would also like to express to everyone that your opinions expressed here, are of course, your's and mine are mine, and are not the expressed teachings of SRF (Self-Realization Fellowship). In fact, a recent disscussion at http://www.yogananda.net/messageboard/index.php on the subject of the "third sex" would give the reader of this post a wondeful view of the love and tolerance expressed by its membership.

This is written with deep respect to you and the others.

In divine friendship,

Ardent Listener

 

[Green Gaia]

I am sorry you feel such a great need to vent your anger on somebody.

And just why do you think we're angry? It's because of people who feel the need to force their religion and ideals into everyone else's life and insult them every chance they get. I think we have very good reason to be angry. You put yourself in the line of fire with your insulting and offensive remarks.

How in the world can you possibly think you have "good friendships with gay men and women" when you call them "morally repugnant, morally corrupt and repulsive". Do you say this to their faces or just behind their backs? Do you think any of them would want to be in the same room with you if they'd read the vitriolic things you've said about them and their families and loved ones?

 

[Jaymes]

How many times do I have to say I'm not seeking approval for anything? :banghead3

Were interracial couples seeking approval when they wanted to marry? Were they wanting society to pat them on the back and say "good job, you're in a relationship"? Or were they just wanting rights?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And just why do you think we're angry?

For the record: I'm angry.

 

[Flappycat]

My first response after reading your responses is that I am not the one with the hate problem here. I do see a lot of projection, stereotyping and prejudice among all you “progressive” folks. However, the left is famous for this so I am not a bit surprised.

I'm actually quite conservative in many respects, and I'm really no more a leftist than the average pet owner runs a zoo.

I have lived among a large population of gay people all my life. I have gay people in my family. I work with gay people every day. I have good friendships with a number of gay men and women.

Oh, so you have friends who are gay, and that makes it all okay, right? Ballyhoo.

To say that I hate or fear homosexuality is to grossly misinterpret what I have expressed in this thread.

You said clearly and explicitly that you personally find the idea of sex between two men "repugnant," and that's after backing off from insisting that homosexuality is absolutely repugnant and morally wrong, need I mine for quotes?

Many of you are trying very hard to paint me as hateful redneck or some kind of fundamentalist whacko.

I've blasted you, from start to finish, for insulting the gay community, thus me, and for attempting to rationalize your way out of supporting their (and my) right to be treated as every bit your equal in the eyes of the law.

I am sorry you feel such a great need to vent your anger on somebody.

No you're not.

Let me restate my position:

I don’t believe that the state should sanctify homosexual marriage.

This is very grossly unfair of you and has no basis outside of your narrow-minded religious beliefs.

I believe marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and God.

Keep your god out of my life, please. I don't get along well with non-existent people, you see. Bad experience with an imaginary friend when I was a child, you know. The funny thing is that the overwhelming majority of homosexuals are Christians. The thing about the fundamentalist whacko is that he fancies himself to know the will and intentions of God with inerrant accuracy. Have you ever taken into consideration that your god might actually find it offensive that you'd advertise him as a callus homophobe?

I find it disturbing and offensive that gays are denigrating the sanctity of marriage by trying to distort it to their lifestyle.

You're denigrating the sanctity of marriage by turning it into a tool for your religious bigotry, and yes, you are very much a religious bigot. Nobody will ever require your church to perform weddings for homosexuals, and the ACLU would be there to protect it from being required to do so if the issue ever came up. Feel free to practice your religion to your heart's content, but you become a selfish bigot when you insist that others should come to any sort of harm in service to them.

I will also vote against this and express my disapproval to my representatives at every opportunity.

I find this to be a very callus and malicious way to behave.

 

[michel]

My first response after reading your responses is that I am not the one with the hate problem here. I do see a lot of projection, stereotyping and prejudice among all you “progressive” folks. However, the left is famous for this so I am not a bit surprised.

I have lived among a large population of gay people all my life. I have gay people in my family. I work with gay people every day. I have good friendships with a number of gay men and women.

To say that I hate or fear homosexuality is to grossly misinterpret what I have expressed in this thread. Many of you are trying very hard to paint me as hateful redneck or some kind of fundamentalist whacko. I am sorry you feel such a great need to vent your anger on somebody.

Let me restate my position:

I don’t believe that the state should sanctify homosexual marriage. I believe marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and God. I find it disturbing and offensive that gays are denigrating the sanctity of marriage by trying to distort it to their lifestyle. I will also vote against this and express my disapproval to my representatives at every opportunity.

Which my vote, at every opportunity in contradiction of yours will also have it's voice.

I do believe that the state should sanctify homosexual marriage.

I find it disturbing and offensive that homophiles are denigrating the sanctity of true religion by being dogmatic in trying to deny those who do not believe in what you do.

 

[Yerda]

Let me restate my position:

I don’t believe that the state should sanctify homosexual marriage. I believe marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and God. I find it disturbing and offensive that gays are denigrating the sanctity of marriage by trying to distort it to their lifestyle. I will also vote against this and express my disapproval to my representatives at every opportunity.

Ye gods! Hasn't it been made clear that the state doesn't sanctify things? Mr. Spinkles made a mockery of that argument pages ago.

If you, your wife, and your god want to draw up contracts - fire away by all means.

My question is; why should you have a say in another person's life that affects you in no way and, in principle, adversly affects no-one?

Or, more importantly, why can these people not reach convention with their god/s (if they have any) and have it legally recognised, and attain the rights that come with legal recognition?

Why is legality a privelage for you and not other people?

 

[Jaymes]

I've been wanting that answer for years, truthseekingsoul. Pretty much the only thing I've heard is 'because God said so.'

 

[jonny]

...It's because of people who feel the need to force their religion and ideals into everyone else's life...

Just playing devil's advocate, but this is exactly how many of the people on the other side of the debate feel also (that homosexuality is being forced into their lives).

 

[Green Gaia]

Just playing devil's advocate, but this is exactly how many of the people on the other side of the debate feel also (that homosexuality is being forced into their lives).

Explain to me how any heterosexual is going have homosexuality forced on them.

 

[Jaymes]

How in the name of (deity) am I forcing homosexuality into anyone's life by wanting to marry my girlfriend? It's logical to see that views are being forced on me when I can't marry... I can't see anything logical about saying I'm forcing homosexuality into someone's life just by me marrying SOMEONE ELSE.

That, and most of the time you wouldn't have to force homosexuality into anyone's life. It's already there, usually... just about everyone knows someone gay.

 

[jonny]

I think this is how people felt last year when so many cities and states started giving out illegal marriage licenses after the citizens voted against it - or when the court in MA forced in on the state. I'm not saying it is right, but people have the right to feel how ever they want.

I was just pointing out the other side's feelings on the issue. If you refuse to understand where the other side is coming from I don't think you can reasonably expect them to try and understand where you are coming from.

 

[Jaymes]

I see where they're coming from... and that doesn't stop me from deserving rights. I can understand and respect someone disliking homosexuality because of their religion, but nobody has a right to tell me I can't marry another consenting adult. Nobody.

 

[jonny]

I see where they're coming from... and that doesn't stop me from deserving rights. I can understand and respect someone disliking homosexuality because of their religion, but nobody has a right to tell me I can't marry another consenting adult. Nobody.

I agree

 

[Green Gaia]

I think this is how people felt last year when so many cities and states started giving out illegal marriage licenses after the citizens voted against it - or when the court in MA forced in on the state. I'm not saying it is right, but people have the right to feel how ever they want.

Sure they can feel that way, but it's illogical. NO ONE is affected by same sex marriage except for gays and lesbians. Forcing a religious belief on all people even those not of that religion effects EVERYONE. Do you see the difference?

I understand what you and they are saying, but again, it's illogical. Opponents of same sex marriage know they don't have a legal leg to stand on so they stoop to these illogical fallacies to sway support in their direction. It's the same thing with the lie that allowing same sex marriage will force all churches to conduct homosexual weddings. It simply is not true.

 

[jonny]

Sure they can feel that way, but it's illogical. NO ONE is affected by same sex marriage except for gays and lesbians. Forcing a religious belief on all people even those not of that religion effects EVERYONE. Do you see the difference?

I disagree that NO ONE will be affected by same sex marriage other than gays and lesbians. Blanket statements like this usually end up having exceptions (I learned this from all those True/False tests in school ). I do agree that the largest effect will be on the gay and lebian population.