Scientific Evidence That Islam is the true religion

[jewscout]

actually ,the majority of muslims do memorize the quran
not only that
they also recite parts of it, daily , in their five prayers

woopy!!

guess what Jews do the same thing w/ the Tanach 3 times a day as well...this proves nothing...

and frankly just cause you can name a handful of muslims who have memorized the quran i somehow doubt that proves anything about it being the "true religion"
at one point i could quote from Prof. Bernard Moitt's book "Women and Slavery in the French Antilles, 1635-1848"...does that make his book Divine revelation???

 

[Ryan2065]

you have given me no such evidence. You just made a statement not supported by anything substantial. It is O.K. finding someone who has memorized the bible would be difficult with all the different versions. And this was not about my religion memorize scripture faster than your so we are right. I have asked around and I found one in my area one who claim he had. I met him he has memorized quite a bit of the new testament but not the whole thing. I am looking for evidence you have still not given me any. Stop with the general statemets. " Rabbis memorized the bible. " is not an evidence. All i asked for was ONE NAME ONE SINGLE NAME and it is a shame you could not answer it. If that is your idea of evidence you should just believe anything anybody tells you.

I can't answer it because its hard to find a Christian with a website that says "Ha I memorized the Bible!"... I don't even know why someone would put that on a website... Let alone put it on a website in a way that the google trackers can actually find it.

I gave you a quote from the Bible that said Rabbi's have memorized the Old Testament... I am not exactly sure why the author of the Bible would lie, especially when the Bible tends to show the Rabbi's in high positions in a bad light, but it is there. Then I showed a sect of monks who were around in the 4th through 6th century who would memorize the Psalms and the New Testament while in the desert in a few years. Now you not only want the names of these people, but also contact information so you can talk to them in search of "knowledge" because someone who has something memorized apparently has better insight into that specific book than someone who does not have it memorized. If you were really in search of this knowledge you would either find the person yourself or you would probably realize that just because someone has something memorized this doesn't mean they have great insight into it.

If you hadn't noticed, I myself am an atheist and I do not exactly talk to many priests, therefore I do not know of any names offhand. However, to say that no one has ever memorized the Bible is a pretty far stretch and I would imagine someone in search of knowledge would be more open minded than that.

And I still stand by my original thought... If a Christian needs to memorize both testaments of God, then a Muslim should have to memorize all three testaments of God.

And you also didn't answer another question of mine... Namely how many pages are in the Quran compared to the Bible. My copy of the New American Bible has 1394 pages.

**Edit** Just a quick note, when I said the Bible tends to show the Rabbi's in high positions in a bad light I of course meant the New Testament.
(Also changed some spelling to make me look smarter =) )

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I can't answer it because its hard to find a Christian with a website that says "Ha I memorized the Bible!"... I don't even know why someone would put that on a website... Let alone put it on a website in a way that the google trackers can actually find it.

that along with many other reasons could be why. Believe me brother i have been looking for a while.

I gave you a quote from the Bible that said Rabbi's have memorized the Old Testament... I am not exactly sure why the author of the Bible would lie, especially when the Bible tends to show the Rabbi's in high positions in a bad light, but it is there.

I am not sure why the different "unknown AUTHORS" did alot of the things they did with the scripture.

Then I showed a sect of monks who were around in the 4th through 6th century who would memorize the Psalms and the New Testament while in the desert in a few years. Now you not only want the names of these people, but also contact information so you can talk to them in search of "knowledge" because someone who has something memorized apparently has better insight into that specific book than someone who does not have it memorized. If you were really in search of this knowledge you would either find the person yourself or you would probably realize that just because someone has something memorized this doesn't mean they have great insight into it.

No that is not what I mean, I do not doubt that they may have done it but it was then. Like i gave you an example of a scholar in Islam a long time ago who did great things. I just wanted a current example. For many do not consider this a concise evidence. I agree it could be true but you have no way of proving it. Just the statement is not a proof and example is needed. they i believe have the same principles in science. You know what I mean.

If you hadn't noticed, I myself am an atheist and I do not exactly talk to many priests, therefore I do not know of any names offhand. However, to say that no one has ever memorized the Bible is a pretty far stretch and I would imagine someone in search of knowledge would be more open minded than that.

Brother I never said if have never memorized the bible I just wanted one current example of someone thats all. Just one.

And I still stand by my original thought... If a Christian needs to memorize both testaments of God, then a Muslim should have to memorize all three testaments of God.

What do you mean exactly. If the bible is a testament of Gods religion and is sufficient we would not need the Quran. There are problems with the validity of the bible. Scholars know these issues. That is why they disagree.

And you also didn't answer another question of mine... Namely how many pages are in the Quran compared to the Bible. My copy of the New American Bible has 1394 pages.

It varies like any other book on how much commentary and explanations are in it. I have some over 2000 and some just over 1300.

**Edit** Just a quick note, when I said the Bible tends to show the Rabbi's in high positions in a bad light I of course meant the New Testament.
(Also changed some spelling to make me look smarter =) )

Another example of the inconsistency of the text.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

woopy!!

guess what Jews do the same thing w/ the Tanach 3 times a day as well...this proves nothing...

that is very good. And it would make sense

and frankly just cause you can name a handful of muslims who have memorized the quran i somehow doubt that proves anything about it being the "true religion"

As I said in another post this is just one example of truth told in the book. for me personally and this was before I accepted Islam this evidence was not sufficient so I needed more and I got more. Alot more. That along with many others is what makes it true. Since when does one true statement in a book make it true. There are many ayat in the Quran all proofs of Allah.

at one point i could quote from Prof. Bernard Moitt's book "Women and Slavery in the French Antilles, 1635-1848"...does that make his book Divine revelation???

did he ever claim it was from God. That is the question if yes then we need to call the statements contained into question according to the principle of the subject. That is if he said it was God's word then we question that if he said women are subjected to slavery in Antille and he wrote a book on it. We call that aspect into question. Come on brother use wisdom.

 

[jewscout]

As I said in another post this is just one example of truth told in the book. for me personally and this was before I accepted Islam this evidence was not sufficient so I needed more and I got more. Alot more. That along with many others is what makes it true. Since when does one true statement in a book make it true. There are many ayat in the Quran all proofs of Allah.

but the same could be said for the Torah...and i would.

did he ever claim it was from God. That is the question if yes then we need to call the statements contained into question according to the principle of the subject. That is if he said it was God's word then we question that if he said women are subjected to slavery in Antille and he wrote a book on it. We call that aspect into question. Come on brother use wisdom.

i was simply trying to illustrate that memorizing proves nothing except that the person in question has a really good memory and time alotted enough to memorize the document in question.

 

[Ryan2065]

No that is not what I mean, I do not doubt that they may have done it but it was then. Like i gave you an example of a scholar in Islam a long time ago who did great things. I just wanted a current example. For many do not consider this a concise evidence. I agree it could be true but you have no way of proving it. Just the statement is not a proof and example is needed. they i believe have the same principles in science. You know what I mean.

Really? Then how can science say any historical event ever happened?

There is no reason for the monks to lie and it is not so unreasonable to think that someone who reads the bible every day for many years that they will eventually memorize the book.

And again I say someone who has in fact memorized the bible is most likely not the typical website creator =)

Brother I never said if have never memorized the bible I just wanted one current example of someone thats all. Just one.

So you believe there probably were people in the past who had it memorized but you dont think its possible today?

What do you mean exactly. If the bible is a testament of Gods religion and is sufficient we would not need the Quran. There are problems with the validity of the bible. Scholars know these issues. That is why they disagree.

My point was Christians tend to follow the teachings of Jesus rather than the teachings of the Old Testament in the same way that Muslims follow the teachings of the Quran rather than the teachings of the Bible.

It varies like any other book on how much commentary and explanations are in it. I have some over 2000 and some just over 1300.

Sigh... You are dodging the question... The number of pages I listed are the number of pages of the Bible with absolutely no commentary. How many pages are in the Quran? Do you think the Quran by itself is comparable in size to the Bible?

Another example of the inconsistency of the text.

Er, how so? As far as I know, the Old Testament doesn't say anything like "The Jewish Rabbi's in Jesus' time are going to be super nice!" and then the New Testament says something like "The Jewish Rabbi's in Jesus' time are so mean!" If I say that the Christians in the Crusades were not so nice but the Christians today are cool am I being inconsistent?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

but the same could be said for the Torah...and i would.

I agree but where is the torah. Do you have the original still. If so how may I get a copy of it. I mean the original books given to Moses. Thanks.

i was simply trying to illustrate that memorizing proves nothing except that the person in question has a really good memory and time alotted enough to memorize the document in question.

As I said above this is just one evidence amongst many. This is not sufficient for you to believe but for some it is. Especially when they do not speak the language. Many people memorize the Quran and do not even speak arabic. that to them is amazing and an evidence. Allah's says in his speech ie. the Quran that it would be easy to memorize for the muslim and it is. This as I said before is just one little part of something grand.

 

[spacemonkey]

I am sooooo impressed that Muslims spend all their time memorizing the Qur'an. You have memorized the rantings of a man fasting in a cave in the desert, aren't you proud of yourself? What are you going to be working on next, Ted Kazinski's manifesto? Perhaps instead of spending all of their time memorizing the Qur'an the Muslims (of the Midle East) should be learning about civil rights and REAL science.

 

[jewscout]

I agree but where is the torah. Do you have the original still. If so how may I get a copy of it. I mean the original books given to Moses. Thanks.

find the Ark, you'll find the first Torah Scroll. Do muslims have the original Quran, written by Mohammed? just curious cause i really don't know...

 

[spacemonkey]

Muhammed never actually wrote the Qur'an, he just recited it.

 

[ayani]

find the Ark, you'll find the first Torah Scroll. Do muslims have the original Quran, written by Mohammed? just curious cause i really don't know...

i'm pretty sure the answer is "no", as Muhammad could not read or write, and since the Quran was compiled into writing by disciples after the fact.

but it would be interesting to know how old the oldest Quran is.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Really? Then how can science say any historical event ever happened?

The evidence of course. it is all about evidence one has. If you cannot prove it. Won't it always have speculation.

There is no reason for the monks to lie and it is not so unreasonable to think that someone who reads the bible every day for many years that they will eventually memorize the book.

The monks said nothing a guy wrote a story about them. I am not saying that it does not happen. I am just saying it is something that is not common, I mean we are having a difficult time just naming one. In Islam I know more muslims in my area alone. Go to the Islamic schools in your area. Ask about the Hafiz. Go talk to some seek them out. There are many but is it the same in Christianity no. Very obscure but when according to the Book they claim to be from God there is no mention of it. There is no mention of how the words of Allah cling to heart and mind making it easy to recite and memorize nor any tangible example we can see.

And again I say someone who has in fact memorized the bible is most likely not the typical website creator =)

It is not just that. The idea itself is difficult I mean we have not named one person yet. What about the leaders of the church the ones educating and enforcing doctrine. Shouldn't some of them know it by heart. They are in important roles. And why aren't the one's who have the most knowledge about what is said in it not representing the people of Christiainity. No one can argue with someone who knows the whole bible by heart about what it says. Likewise for muslims. All scholars in Islam memorized all Quran. Some have memorized over 300,000 hadith of the Messenger. How come the pope or the leaders of these religious institutions not have individuals within their ranks who have accomplished these things.

So you believe there probably were people in the past who had it memorized but you dont think its possible today?

People were much smarter back then. Too many distractions today

My point was Christians tend to follow the teachings of Jesus rather than the teachings of the Old Testament in the same way that Muslims follow the teachings of the Quran rather than the teachings of the Bible.

Christians follow the teachings of Jesus through the context of Paul and various other scribes who altered and changed the text.

Sigh... You are dodging the question... The number of pages I listed are the number of pages of the Bible with absolutely no commentary. How many pages are in the Quran? Do you think the Quran by itself is comparable in size to the Bible?

Man do you know who many different bibles there are I have a bible that has 7 more chapters than the others. What would it matter. The Quran has over 114 chapters. Do you not own one. I will send you onw if you would like.

Er, how so? As far as I know, the Old Testament doesn't say anything like "The Jewish Rabbi's in Jesus' time are going to be super nice!" and then the New Testament says something like "The Jewish Rabbi's in Jesus' time are so mean!" If I say that the Christians in the Crusades were not so nice but the Christians today are cool am I being inconsistent?

The bible says alot of things. The Sadducees and Pharisees according to Jesus are the sons of the devil. Now in the Old Testament they were righteous scholars who had alot of knowledge. there should be consistency if the text is from the same source. The Crusades are not in consistence with the teachings of Jesus didn't he say turn the other cheek. the jews were righteous and great scholars is what is in the old testament and it comes from the Jews. the new testament was written by pagans who supposedlly converted to their version of the jewish relgion. There seems to be a bias present and it comes from the many different authors all putting their different perspective which creates a diversity in confusion. Also was not Paul a Pharisee. Jesus had some pretty interesting things to say about them.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

find the Ark, you'll find the first Torah Scroll. Do muslims have the original Quran, written by Mohammed? just curious cause i really don't know...

Yes we do. Allah made the Prophets heart a vessel and he taught it to his companions who in turn memorized it. They wrote it down for him. And before he died they compiled all the pieces they had and compiled it in a book. It is still in existence today.

 

[ayani]

They wrote it down for him. And before he died they compiled all the pieces they had and compiled it in a book. It is still in existence today.

he means, i think, the original physical book of the Quran, the first one written down.

we understand that the text of the Quran is supposedly intact as it was when it was first revealed. that's fine.

but what about the earliest found physical copy of the written down form of the Quran? a book which a person can hold?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

he means, i think, the original physical book of the Quran, the first one written down.

we understand that the text of the Quran is supposedly intact as it was when it was first revealed. that's fine.

but what about the earliest found physical copy of the written down form of the Quran? a book which a person can hold?

Yes that is the one it was to Abu Bakr after the Messenger. That one was passed on to the next when Uthmani got he he added the marks to insure it would be read in the original tongue of the Messenger. You know how we muslims are all wanting to do everything Muhammed did to the letter. This one is one display in Turkey I believe and still has the blood of Uthman on it.

 

[roli]

[

quote=Islam]The Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. This proves without doubt that the Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad , and that the Quran was not authored by Muhammad or by any other human being. This also proves that Muhammad is truly a prophet sent by God. It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods.

That's great that it works out to support your belief(religion),but Nostradamus also made profound prophetic predictions and claims that proved he was this or that sent from God.
But that man was involved with the astrology,horescope,incantations,practices,crystal balls which all are attributed to the occult.Yet he says these were the ways in which the divine would reveal things to him ,and yet this type of revelation is spoken of in the scriptures as witchcraft
Many of his predictions were developed from his involvment and knowledge of the biblical scriptures as he was a Jew by birth and converted Catholic,but also his astrology education.
He studied ancient greek and Hebrew and it would seem he devised many of the pagan practices of mystic religions
Most if not all of his prophecies were revised by others who interpreted them as they seemed to fit each historical occurence,but when you study his actual writings they were never clearly distinctive of the details of the actual events but were interpreted to appear related,thus he becomes a prophet.

 

[spacemonkey]

OF COURSE the Qur'an is more scientifically correct then previous religous writings, that's because they are PREVIOUS WRITINGS!!! If I wanted a map of the world, I wouldn't use the one that Christopher Columbus did. The people alive during Muhamed's time had a better understanding of the world around them then the people alive during Jesus's, and the people around during Jesus's time had a better understanding then those that were alive for Moses. By your logic Scientology would be the "true" religion.

 

[Ryan2065]

The monks said nothing a guy wrote a story about them. I am not saying that it does not happen. I am just saying it is something that is not common, I mean we are having a difficult time just naming one. In Islam I know more muslims in my area alone. Go to the Islamic schools in your area. Ask about the Hafiz. Go talk to some seek them out. There are many but is it the same in Christianity no. Very obscure but when according to the Book they claim to be from God there is no mention of it. There is no mention of how the words of Allah cling to heart and mind making it easy to recite and memorize nor any tangible example we can see.

But see, there is no goal in Christianity to actually memorize the Bible. Sure if you read it enough you'll eventually memorize it, but its no goal... Is it a goal of Islam to memorize the Quran?

It is not just that. The idea itself is difficult I mean we have not named one person yet. What about the leaders of the church the ones educating and enforcing doctrine. Shouldn't some of them know it by heart. They are in important roles. And why aren't the one's who have the most knowledge about what is said in it not representing the people of Christiainity. No one can argue with someone who knows the whole bible by heart about what it says. Likewise for muslims. All scholars in Islam memorized all Quran. Some have memorized over 300,000 hadith of the Messenger. How come the pope or the leaders of these religious institutions not have individuals within their ranks who have accomplished these things.

So all scholars in Islam can sit down and recite every single word of the Quran without looking at all at the Quran?

And how exactly do you know that the Pope and others cannot recite the Bible? Again, why exactly would a church leader go around saying "Hah! I memorized the bible"... Could it be possible that they realize its the message thats important and not the exact wording?

Man do you know who many different bibles there are I have a bible that has 7 more chapters than the others. What would it matter. The Quran has over 114 chapters. Do you not own one. I will send you onw if you would like.

Why do you misrepresent your holy book the way you do? I asked you how many pages there are in the Quran to compare the feat of memorizing the Quran to memorizing the Bible... You responded:

It varies like any other book on how much commentary and explanations are in it. I have some over 2000 and some just over 1300.

I looked it up online... Here is what I found...
http://www.amazon.com/Qur-Translati...=pd_bbs_3/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version... Number of pages: 467.
http://www.amazon.com/English-inter...=pd_bbs_4/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version... Number of pages: 606
http://www.amazon.com/Qur-Oxford-Wo...=pd_bbs_5/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version... Number of pages: 512
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Qur-Engl...=pd_bbs_7/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version which has both the english and Arabic version... Number of pages: 1256.

Good job at trying to make the feat sound better than it is.

The bible says alot of things. The Sadducees and Pharisees according to Jesus are the sons of the devil. Now in the Old Testament they were righteous scholars who had alot of knowledge. there should be consistency if the text is from the same source.

Do you not understand the concept of time? In the time of the Old Testament the Saudducees and Pharisees could have had alot of knowledge, by the time Jesus came around, their position could have gotten so bad that they were the sons of the devil... The Bible spans a huge amount of time... You are not understanding this...

The Crusades are not in consistence with the teachings of Jesus didn't he say turn the other cheek.

And the Taliban are not consistant with the teachings of Mohammed. Your point?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

But see, there is no goal in Christianity to actually memorize the Bible. Sure if you read it enough you'll eventually memorize it, but its no goal... Is it a goal of Islam to memorize the Quran?

They do not even know what is the bible how can they memorize it.

So all scholars in Islam can sit down and recite every single word of the Quran without looking at all at the Quran?

All true scholars yes. And some who are not.

And how exactly do you know that the Pope and others cannot recite the Bible? Again, why exactly would a church leader go around saying "Hah! I memorized the bible"... Could it be possible that they realize its the message thats important and not the exact wording?

No but he would be better educated on what he is preaching.

Why do you misrepresent your holy book the way you do? I asked you how many pages there are in the Quran to compare the feat of memorizing the Quran to memorizing the Bible... You responded:

the reason is you kept asking me for how many pages instead of verses or the number of words or ayat. pages mean nothing to me. I have different translation with different number of pages but the ayat stays the same yet you did not ask me that. I only answered your question.

I looked it up online... Here is what I found...
http://www.amazon.com/Qur-Translation-Sayed-Razwy/dp/1879402297/sr=8-3/qid=1158176936/ref=pd_bbs_3/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version... Number of pages: 467.
http://www.amazon.com/English-interpretation-Holy-Quran/dp/1930097468/sr=8-4/qid=1158176936/ref=pd_bbs_4/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version... Number of pages: 606
http://www.amazon.com/Qur-Oxford-World-Classics-Hardcovers/dp/0192805487/sr=8-5/qid=1158176936/ref=pd_bbs_5/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version... Number of pages: 512
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Qur-English-Arabic/dp/091332101X/sr=8-7/qid=1158176936/ref=pd_bbs_7/104-6774639-1407960?ie=UTF8&s=books
This version which has both the english and Arabic version... Number of pages: 1256.

Good job at trying to make the feat sound better than it is.

If it is so easy you go and do it then.

Do you not understand the concept of time? In the time of the Old Testament the Saudducees and Pharisees could have had alot of knowledge, by the time Jesus came around, their position could have gotten so bad that they were the sons of the devil... The Bible spans a huge amount of time... You are not understanding this...

Again you missed the point who were the Sadducees. They are the scribes of the Jewish traditions. The bible talks about religious figures way before the jews so what. The sadduccees were the rabbis who corrupted the scripture. I said knowledge and righteous for this is the picture they paint of themselves. But again you use the bible as a source and you do not believe in it.

And the Taliban are not consistant with the teachings of Mohammed. Your point?[/quote]The taliban did not author a part of our religion and the Sadduccees did in there's.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

OF COURSE the Qur'an is more scientifically correct then previous religous writings, that's because they are PREVIOUS WRITINGS!!! If I wanted a map of the world, I wouldn't use the one that Christopher Columbus did. The people alive during Muhamed's time had a better understanding of the world around them then the people alive during Jesus's, and the people around during Jesus's time had a better understanding then those that were alive for Moses. By your logic Scientology would be the "true" religion.

That is not true this was a period during the dark ages. And if the world had it the arabs did not. People did not go to arabia they thought they were barbarians. They were known to be thieves because the bedowins before Islam used to acquire wealth through the raiding of caravans. When the Roman empire fell and was split alot of the knowledge they acquired was lost