Seal of the Prophets - Does it mean Muhammad is the final Prophet?

[firedragon]

Thank you for the question firedragon.

I will start by stating that I see that Allah has revealed the Messages given by both the Bab and Baha'u'llah. These are not their words;

"This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven,..." Baha'u'llah.

The Bab prepared the way for this message, the Bab wrote about the coming Divine Teacher as “Him Whom God shall make manifest” and stated that “no words of Mine can adequately describe Him, nor can any reference in My Book, the Bayan, do justice to His Cause.”

The Bayan was the cleaving of the Old World Order and laying the foundation of the New, "No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right hand: Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!" 39:67

As such Allah's new Revelation is this 'Day of Judgement'.

Regards Tony

Thus, your point is that you believe this yo be the right interpretation because someone said so. No analysis?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thus, your point is that you believe this yo be the right interpretation because someone said so. No analysis?

It happened, it does not need me to believe it happened, or to believe because someone said so. It is an invitation to pursue, as Allah always offers. There is no compulsion.

I would ask How big an analysis are you after, there are Two complete Revelations, with hundreds of volumes of writings and books full of explanations?

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

It happened, it does not need me to believe it happened, or to believe because someone said so. It is an invitation to pursue, as Allah always offers. There is no compulsion.

I would ask How big an analysis are you after, there are Two complete Revelations, with hundreds of volumes of writings and books full of explanations?

Regards Tony

You just showed brother that you have faith without analysis. Thats called blind faith. If you wish to not analyse if "your interpretation of what Allah revealed, what ever that is" thats your prerogative, but I would say it is the definition of blind faith.

No one is compelled to analyse anything and that is not a good enough answer.

Anything anyone says one must analyse before adopting it. Any kind of information should be analysed. Thats what the Quran says, and you claim to believe in the Quran as well. Also, anyone will agree that all claims should be analysed before adopting it.

Have a great day.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You just showed brother that you have faith without analysis. Thats called blind faith. If you wish to not analyse if "your interpretation of what Allah revealed, what ever that is" thats your prerogative, but I would say it is the definition of blind faith.

No one is compelled to analyse anything and that is not a good enough answer.

Anything anyone says one must analyse before adopting it. Any kind of information should be analysed. Thats what the Quran says, and you claim to believe in the Quran as well. Also, anyone will agree that all claims should be analysed before adopting it.

Have a great day.

I would offer that I am pointing you to the source of all reason and logic, to which any analysis by me will always fall short and you are free to pursue that source, not compelled to do so.

I see my Faith is based on my sense of reason and my sense of logic over a 35 year search to date and that is not blind Faith. My reason and logic, is not what another may see as such and it may not be in tune with yours.

The only reason and logic, that stands upon its own merit, is the Word of Allah. As I have said, you are not compelled to pursue the Word of Allah offered by the source of all reasoning, that I see is the Bab and Baha'u'llah in this age.

Peace be with you and have many a great day firedragon.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thus, your point is that you believe this yo be the right interpretation because someone said so. No analysis?

As I retire for the night, I was thinking. Do you see Muhammad as someone that said so?

If not, all that you can say to prove Muhammad recited the Quran from God, would most likely be the same annalist that can be used for both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

As I retire for the night, I was thinking. Do you see Muhammad as someone that said so?

If not, all that you can say to prove Muhammad recited the Quran from God, would most likely be the same annalist that can be used for both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

Hmm. How is Muhammed and my belief relevant to you not analysing what you believe brother?

If you wish to ask me about my belief, ask that in a manner which is not an answer to a question I asked from you. I didnt expect that from you guys annyway.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There are many hadith he will not bring a new book but will revive quran and sunnah. Many hadiths say he will bring back sunnah with no innovations in it.

Please quote a Hadith which says the Qaim will not bring a new Book. I have never seen such a Hadith. I have already quoted Hadithes backed up Quran, saying Qaim comes with a new Book.

So, you believe the Qaim corrects misinterpretations of Quran? What if the Qaim says people misinterpreted the term 'Seal of Prophets', and it does not mean finality of Revelation?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@Link and @firedragon

All Messengers of God brought Islam. abraham, Moses or Jesus all brought Islam, but each version of Islam had its own Rites and Religious Laws suitable for their own time. This is why for example, Islam of Moses had the Law of Sabbath, but Islam of Muhammad does not have this Law.
In another words, everytime, the Messenger brought a newer version of Islam. Islam of Muhammad was new compared with Islam of Jesus.

In the same way, according to Hadihes, the Qaim will bring a new Islam. Not same Islam as Muhammad:

عن ابی عبدالله (ع) قال:
اذا قام القائم (ع)، دعا الناس الی الاسلام جدیدا و هداهم الی امر قد د ثر و ضل عنه الجمهور و انما سمی القائم مهد یا لانه یهدی الی امر مضلول عنه... (بحارالانوارظظظش، ج 51، ص 30 ، ح 7، به نقل از ارشاد شیخ مفید)

كشف الغمة في معرفة الأئمة - المحدث الإربلي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت


Imam Abi Abdullah said: when the Qaim rises, He will invite people to a New Islam.....

 

[firedragon]

All Messengers of God brought Islam. abraham, Moses or Jesus all brought Islam, but each version of Islam had its own Rites and Religious Laws suitable for their own time. This is why for example, Islam of Moses had the Law of Sabbath, but Islam of Muhammad does not have this Law.

Whats your source for this? Do you have an explanation?

 

[firedragon]

عن ابی عبدالله (ع) قال:
اذا قام القائم (ع)، دعا الناس الی الاسلام جدیدا و هداهم الی امر قد د ثر و ضل عنه الجمهور و انما سمی القائم مهد یا لانه یهدی الی امر مضلول عنه... (بحارالانوارظظظش، ج 51، ص 30 ، ح 7، به نقل از ارشاد شیخ مفید)

كشف الغمة في معرفة الأئمة - المحدث الإربلي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

Mind my ignorance. Who names Al Qaim as Al Mahdi according to this hadith? And if you dont mind, whats this book of hadith?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Whats your source for this? Do you have an explanation?

That is shown in the Quran: Noah was a Muslim. Jesus followers were Muslims. The only true Religion is Islam.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Mind my ignorance. Who names Al Qaim as Al Mahdi according to this hadith? And if you dont mind, whats this book of hadith?

It is in Biharul anwar. I provided the link to the Book which quotes the Hadith

 

[firedragon]

That is shown in the Quran: Noah was a Muslim. Jesus followers were Muslims. The only true Religion is Islam.

But where in Quran does it say that "but each version of Islam had its own Rites and Religious Laws suitable for their own time"? Is it the same verse that says "an appointed time" or ajalin musamman?

 

[firedragon]

It is in Biharul anwar. I provided the link to the Book which quotes the Hadith

Ah. Biharul Anwar. Are you referring to the 23rd volume? But yet, thats not the source of the hadith brother. Because Majlesi Al Thani is a 17th century theologian so what is the source of the hadith you quoted? Do you understand my question?

Also, I asked you who is the one who changed Al Qaim into Al Mahdi? Because your hadith says so. So I am asking "who is the person that did it"?

 

[firedragon]

It is in Biharul anwar. I provided the link to the Book which quotes the Hadith

And sorry. I didnt know there was a link. Thanks nevertheless, now I have the link. Anyway, I have the 23rd volume and thats it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But where in Quran does it say that "but each version of Islam had its own Rites and Religious Laws suitable for their own time"? Is it the same verse that says "an appointed time" or ajalin musamman?

Quran confirm to every nation, God sent a Messenger... then in this verse He days:

"And for every nation have We appointed a ritual, that they may mention the name of Allah over the beast of cattle that He hath given them for food; and your god is One God, therefor surrender unto Him. And give good tidings (O Muhammad) to the humble,..." 22:34

The Jews had to keep Sabbath is mentioned in the Quran. That tells us, according to Quran, Allah had asked Jews to keep sabbath. But why Allah did not ask Muslims to keep the Sabath? because Allah has given a different Rites to the Followers of Muhammad.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Quran teaches the Messengers always come in forms of Ahlulbayts, these houses that God permitted to be risen and his name remembered there in, have after the Founding Navigator and builder of the ship of salvation, twelve Captains to navigate and keep the believers on course.

The course from the people of Moses that people had to hold on to, were those who guided by truth and established justice, and these paths, and branches linking back to the blessed root of tree of revelation, were Twelve. And the light brought with the Prophet was split into twelve Captains and Witnessing Leaders and Guides and Kings.

Also, the Mahdi is taught in Quran to be one of biggest days of God and the days of God are when oppressors are not longer respited if they oppress or believers don't defeat them. Mohammad people were spared punishment due to Mohammad and the believers who were prosecuted with him in the start. Otherwise, it seem like a point they would be destroyed like other people were destroyed in the past.

The Mahdi is the warning that is not local to a place, but universal, such that every town and city can be punished and destroyed, and we were on course to that, and may be one course to that still, and we have to avoid this catastrophe that is surely coming if we mock God's warnings and signs.

The Mahdi thus will come with clear miracles, the whole world will witness, and is a universal trial.

He is the last trial before the day of judgment for humanity!

Oppress him and believers with him, and humanity will perish, and the believers will inherit the earth, and God never punishes a people while people still seeking to reform themselves and do good!

"The Quran teaches the Messengers always come in forms of Ahlulbayts, these houses"
Sorry.
Islam is not a racial Religion. The Quranic verse which mentions the title Khaatam-un-Nabiyyeen bestowed on Muhammad by G-d negates it.
One should get corrected, please?

Regards
______
#226 paarsurrey,
This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour upon you and have chosen for you Islam as religion.
#241 paarsurrey
The title Khaatam-un-Nabiyyeen has been bestowed on Muhammad by the All-Knowing Allah, so it would mean that:
· Muhammad is the highest in stature/status among all the Prophets/Messengers
· All the Prophets/Messengers past/present/future have/had the stamp of Muhammad's character, so that their truthfulness could be known easily to recognize them where-ever they appeared in the world.
· With the completion of truthful Religion on Muhammad no new religion could come.
· The future Messiah/Imam-Mahdi/Jesus-in-Second-Coming/Prophet/Messenger will bring no new religion, no new Law, no new Sunnah; he will booster/revive the teachings of Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad and such person will not come from the skies but will be born in Ummah of Muhammad.

 

[firedragon]

Quran confirm to every nation, God sent a Messenger... then in this verse He days:

"And for every nation have We appointed a ritual, that they may mention the name of Allah over the beast of cattle that He hath given them for food; and your god is One God, therefor surrender unto Him. And give good tidings (O Muhammad) to the humble,..." 22:34

The Jews had to keep Sabbath is mentioned in the Quran. That tells us, according to Quran, Allah had asked Jews to keep sabbath. But why Allah did not ask Muslims to keep the Sabath? because Allah has given a different Rites to the Followers of Muhammad.

1. How do you know about the Sabbath? Where in the Quran is that mentioned?
2. You cited 22:34. So what is Baythul atheeki inn that?
3. How do you determine that based on this simple word Shaaira, you have made a whole philosophy of the end of Quran, a new messenger etc?

Please answer all three questions because they are all related to the same verse that YOU quoted and your philosophy. You keep avoiding simple questions about things you quote brother. I cant understand.

Cheers.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

1. How do you know about the Sabbath? Where in the Quran is that mentioned?
2. You cited 22:34. So what is Baythul atheeki inn that?
3. How do you determine that based on this simple word Shaaira, you have made a whole philosophy of the end of Quran, a new messenger etc?

Please answer all three questions because they are all related to the same verse that YOU quoted and your philosophy. You keep avoiding simple questions about things you quote brother. I cant understand.

Cheers.

1. we can know about Sabath from Jewish Torah, as well as many verses of Quran which confirms it:

“And we caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! And we bade them: Transgress not the Sabbath! And We took from them a firm covenant.” (4:154)

2. I sited 22:34, because it says, to every people who God sent a messenger, He gave them a different Rites to worship Him. This is to know that, although Quran says the only true Religion has been always Islam, but, God had given different Rites and Laws to different people. Baytul atheeq, is not in this verse. It was in the verse before it.
3. First we have to see from Hadith and Quran what are shaair. From 2:34, we see, shaair was given to people to worship God. In islam, you worship God by obligatory prayer(salaat), Hajj, and other ways. So, 22:33 tells us, these ways of worship of God will be beneficial until an appointed time. When you refer to hadithes, the expression 'appointed time's is a reference to rise of Qaim. We saw in the first verse I quoted, it says, believing in Quran is only acceptable until the signs appear. Imam Ali said, the signs are related to manifestation of Qaim. Here we have also a number of Hadithes stating Qaim comes with a new Book, a new Islam.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmm. How is Muhammed and my belief relevant to you not analysing what you believe brother?

If you wish to ask me about my belief, ask that in a manner which is not an answer to a question I asked from you. I didnt expect that from you guys annyway.

I see Truth is relative to my choices in life. I ask, that why do you consider that has not included an analysis of my faith? That is what I am currently reading in your question and why I referenced your faith, built on your own analysis.

At the same time I can say that the analysis I have undertaken to date is far from being adequate and complete. As I see for me to be able to have a better understanding of Muhammad and the Quran, that would pave the way for a much deeper understanding of the Messages that both the Bab and Baha'u'llah gave.

My main foundation for an analysis of any and all faiths is the Oneness of Allah and that Allah doeth as Allah so chooses and guides us all, as Allah so wills. I do not place it on what men have interpreted that to be.

Please feel free to share your understanding.

Regards Tony