Second Coming

[Feedmysheep]

Fair enough.

When I said "I think you have been sold a bill of goods by Christianity" I was not talking about any Christians who may have disappointed you, I was referring to the actual doctrines of Christianity.

Of course other Baha'is have disappointed me, but the actual doctrines of the Baha'i Faith have never disappointed me.

But above all the Christian life is a living. That is a living in union with
the living Christ. Less than great interpretations are not as damaging as failure to express Christ in living.
James says all the teachers can make mistakes and will receive greater judgment. (James 3:1,2)

What are are your, let's say, two most flagrant examples of wrong doctrines that have misled me?
I might agree with you. Then again I might not.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Still waiting, tell me when he arrives please.

There will be no need for that.

 

[Feedmysheep]

When I die a new existence will begin. New universe, new everything. Evidence? Nope

This saying kind of makes God a God of death. I mean you're saying one has to DIE in order
to receive salvation.

Now He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all men are living. (Luke 20:38)

Doesn't this concept of death to know salvation
short change human nature? Doesn't this make our death more important than our living?

 

[Feedmysheep]

John 14 is part of the Farewell Discourse, which Jesus gave to his disciples after the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.

As is chapters 15,16, and 17 also His last words before His accomplishing eternal redemption through His death on His cross.

However, they are also His "Hello!" to the disciples as well. It is His preparing them to live by His invisible presence
while He is away.

This being away is TEMPORARY. It is not forever.

John 14
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

I don't think your view is accurate for two reasons.

1.) They did physically see Him for aome forty days off and on after His resurrection.

2.) The seeing there probably includes a "seeing" as Paul says "the eyes of your heart being enlightened."

The day came in the privacy of my living room that I "saw" that Jesus was Lord.
That was a cataclysmic seeing of my spiritual eyes.

I cannot tell you over the next year how exciting it was to have the pages of the New Testament
simply glow with meaning I previously had not known. At first I didn't want to read the Bible.
Instead I started to read Reinhold Niebuhr's "The Nature and the Destiny of Man". He was a German theologian.

But I had no grounding in the Bible to have a understanding of what he was so sophisticatedly saying.
But it sounded philosohically smart. And I wanted to be a smart conversationist about my new faith.
Eventually I prayed that I didn't understand what I was reading at all.
Then the Holy Spirit impressed me - "Why don't you read the Bible?"

I thought to myself "Well I humbled myself to call on the name of the Lord Jesus. "Lord Jesus take me home. I'm tired."
So I thought I could humble myself to read that old Bible too.
That was the beginning of a life long adventure into the light. As I read, here and there I said "I understand that. I know what that
is talking about."

Now latter I discovered that the main things I remembered from reading Neibuhr's book was when he was quoting from
the New Testament. I remember him saying at the end of the book essentially what is in Romans 8:35-39. But I didn't know he
was repeating what Paul wrote.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or anguish or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword?
As it is written, “For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; we have been accounted as sheep for slaughter.”
But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers
Nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

For some reason that really stuck with me as a powerful conclusion to his book "The Nature and the Destiny of Man."

The other thing I remember was two paragraph heading to a certain chapter which read something like this -
Grace As God's Power Over Man & Grace as God's Power Within Man

If you've read me down to this point, thanks.
Anyway, that's how I got started on my beautiful Christian journey over 50 years ago.

This is Jesus saying that the world will not see Him again (no more) because Jesus knew He was going to die on the cross and ascend to Heaven.
But Jesus told his disciples that they see Him, meaning that they know Him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

I said that if you think Matt. 24:44 refers to Jesus, either Jesus is a bold-faced liar or the Bible is inaccurate, since Jesus said he was no more in this world.
I do not think Jesus was a bold-faced liar because I do not believe that Matt. 24:44 refers to Jesus.

I see. I may comment latter.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Fair enough.

When I said "I think you have been sold a bill of goods by Christianity" I was not talking about any Christians who may have disappointed you, I was referring to the actual doctrines of Christianity.

But that is really where the meat of it is. By their fruits you shall know them.
I'll examine your examples of wrong teachings if you offer them.

I suspect that you'll count them are wrong according to seeing everything through the lense of some other writings -
like the sayings of Baháʼu'lláh. I mean like a Mormon would see bad teaching in the New Testament looking through
the lense of the Book of Mormon. Or a Jehovah's Witness would see bad teaching in the NT when seeing it through the Watchtower teachings.

 

[Trailblazer]

What are are your, let's say, two most flagrant examples of wrong doctrines that have misled me?
I might agree with you. Then again I might not.

Here are four:

1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus is the only way to God
3. Jesus rose from the dead
4. Jesus is going to return to earth

 

[Trailblazer]

But that is really where the meat of it is. By their fruits you shall know them.

Those verses refer to prophets.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: fruit

I'll examine your examples of wrong teachings if you offer them.

I suspect that you'll count them are wrong according to seeing everything through the lense of some other writings -
like the sayings of Baháʼu'lláh.

I just offered some examples of teachings I believe are false (1-4).

Yes, I do look at them as a Baha'i, but that is not the only lens I look through.

 

[Jimmy]

This saying kind of makes God a God of death. I mean you're saying one has to DIE in order
to receive salvation.

Now He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all men are living. (Luke 20:38)

Doesn't this concept of death to know salvation
short change human nature? Doesn't this make our death more important than our living?

Someone has to be the catalyst for a new beginning. When I die it will be 1979 and I will be 5 yrs old. Eternal life for us all.
I don’t think you’re understanding me correctly. My death affects all of existence and all living things.

 

[Trailblazer]

As is chapters 15,16, and 17 also His last words before His accomplishing eternal redemption through His death on His cross.

However, they are also His "Hello!" to the disciples as well. It is His preparing them to live by His invisible presence
while He is away.

This being away is TEMPORARY. It is not forever.

As is chapters 14, 15,16, and 17 also His last words before His death on His cross and ascension to Heaven.
No More means never again so His absence from this world was permanent, not temporary.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I don't think your view is accurate for two reasons.

1.) They did physically see Him for some forty days off and on after His resurrection.

As you must already know, I don't believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead.
Jesus knew that was the last time He would be in the world so that is why He said he would be No More in the world.

After Jesus died and ascended to heaven men wrote stories about how Jesus rose from the dead.
Jesus had nothing to do with those stories that were written about Him.

2.) The seeing there probably includes a "seeing" as Paul says "the eyes of your heart being enlightened."

The day came in the privacy of my living room that I "saw" that Jesus was Lord.
That was a cataclysmic seeing of my spiritual eyes.

I can agree that there is a "seeing" with spiritual eyes.
I do not believe Jesus is Lord. God is the Lord and Jesus is not God so Jesus is not the Lord.
I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God. God was manifest in the flesh but God did not become flesh, so Jesus was not God incarnate.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or anguish or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword?
As it is written, “For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; we have been accounted as sheep for slaughter.”
But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers
Nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nobody except ourselves can separate us from the love of Christ
Nothing can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus and the other Manifestations of God.

Jesus is not our Lord and Jesus did not want to be worshiped as our Lord. God is our Lord. That is why Jesus said the following:

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

If you've read me down to this point, thanks.
Anyway, that's how I got started on my beautiful Christian journey over 50 years ago.

I got started on my Baha'i journey over 50 years ago. Had I not done so I would never have known about Jesus, since it was Baha'u'llah glorifying Jesus that really got my attention and made me realize what Jesus did for us as individuals and His effect upon the whole world.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86

It was only after I read what Baha'u'llah said about Jesus that I was curious enough to read the New Testament and learn more about Jesus.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Here are four:

1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus is the only way to God
3. Jesus rose from the dead
4. Jesus is going to return to earth

Hey, that's not what the Bible says.
I definitely disagree with all four of your examples.
And to add, you were wrong that Christ has no heavenly ministry today.

1.) To believe that Jesus is God is not to disbelieve that He is a man. He is God-man.

2.) I believe that If anyone in the world comes to God it will because of Jesus.
I said it will be because of Christ Himself. I didn't say it will necessarily be because of the religion of "Christianity."
I think there is a difference.

3.) If Jesus did not rise from the dead then the entire Bible is useless.
You can eat and drink and do whatever. For tomorrow we all die and rot.

Jesus is the resurrection and the life - the divine and uncreated indestructible eternal life of God.

4.) Yes Christ will return to establish His kingdom.
As sure as you eat a piece of toast, you and I will stand before Him.

 

[Feedmysheep]

I got started on my Baha'i journey over 50 years ago. Had I not done so I would never have known about Jesus, since it was Baha'u'llah glorifying Jesus that really got my attention and made me realize what Jesus did for us as individuals and His effect upon the whole world.

Anyone who since Christ lived, died, and rose from the dead, who desires to start a new faith cannot ignore Jesus Christ.

Neither Mohammed, not Baha'u' llah, or Sun Myung Moon, or Joseph Smith, or Mary Baker Eddy, or Charles Russell, or Elijah Muhammed, or whoever -
No one since Christ wanting to start a religion can resist the temptation to attempt teaching "Oh we believe in Jesus Christ too, you know?"

They all try to somehow bring Christ under their banner.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Trailbalzer, I read your small article. It was 100% flattery.

The man is in envious and jealous competition with the Son of God.