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Second Coming

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This is no lie.This is your superficial misunderstanding.
He was talking about they will see Him in resurrection.
John 14 is part of the Farewell Discourse, which Jesus gave to his disciples after the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.

John 14
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.


This is Jesus saying that the world will not see Him again (no more) because Jesus knew He was going to die on the cross and ascend to Heaven.
But Jesus told his disciples that they see Him, meaning that they know Him.
The life which is really life is the life of God which can be dispensed into us.
Life apart from the resurrected Christ within is empty, vain, futile, rather meaningless, dark and sin filled.
He was saying that is not real normal human life. That is spiritual deadness and emptiness - not knowing who one really is.
Life apart from Christ within is empty, vain, futile, rather meaningless, dark and sin filled.
There was absolutely no need for those resurrection stories to be added to the Bible. They have served no purpose except to botch up Christianity and make Christians feel superior to everyone else.

So what if Christ rose from the dead? What purpose would that serve? Christ was destined to die after that.

Nobody needs Christ risen from the dead. All they need is Christ.
Because I live you shall live also mean knowing Him as alive and available is really life to be lived.
Like Paul told Timothy - Laying away for themselves a good foundation as a treasure for the future, that they may lay hold on that which is really life. (1 Tim. 6:19)

Today we phsycially do not see Jesus. Yes.
But with the eyes of our innermost spiritual being we see Him if we receive Him.
And beholding and reflecting Him like a mirror within He transforms us into the image we are gazing at.
I have no problem with any of the above.
Have you read that Jesus said it was expedient that He go away? For He could then have a more inward, intimate relationship
with their inner beings as the Comforter - the Spirit of reality.
Jesus explained why he had to go away in John 16:7.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


According to my beliefs, the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are titles that refer to Baha'u'llah, who brought the Holy Spirit from the Father.
Jesus was a Comforter, Baha'u'llah was another Comforter.
He finished the work of eternal redemption when He uttered those words "It is finished" at the cross.
Though that was the finishing of His earthly ministry it was not the completion of His heavenly ministry.

In His heavenly ministry as the great High Priest He is transmitting His life into those who receive Him to be one spirit with them.
the last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)
Jesus was made a quickening spirit while on earth.
Jesus has no heavenly ministry. Jesus had an earthly mission and it ended when He ascended to Heaven.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
I don't see at all what you're complaining about.
I am not complaining about anything.
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest expression of righteousness, ethical purity, goodness, integrity, and faithfulness -
Where on the scale would you put yourself in relation to Jesus Christ ?
I do not rate myself. That is God's job.
I think you've been lying to yourself for years.
I think you have been sold a bill of goods by Christianity.
 

Feedmysheep

Member
I think you have been sold a bill of goods by Christianity.
To some extent that is true. But then the word "Christianity" to me is not as precious as the name Christ.
That's why we love the Lord Jesus so much and have returned to the Bible.

Now you are a Baha'i. And to some extent you also could look back
upon SOME fellow Baha'is who you now probably realize were not too cool.

Not one didn't disappoint you?
 

Feedmysheep

Member
John 14 is part of the Farewell Discourse, which Jesus gave to his disciples after the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.
Trailblazer I may have confused you with another poster who said Jesus was "a bold face liar."
Now if that was not you I apologize for saying you were lying to yourself. I may have gotten discussions confused.
Please forgive me if this was the case.
 

Feedmysheep

Member
I told one poster that not one year of the two thousand plus years we've expected Him was wasted.

You see Christ is not only concerned with quantity of people saved by hearing the gospel throughout the world.
He is also concerned with quality of what we might call overcomers. That is those who rose to the challenge
of fuller consecration.

These are a remnant and not the majority. And as the centuries roll by He has accumulated more of these
overcomers. They will be rewarded to reign with Him over the earth at His second coming.

So the time has not been wasted as the number of believers qualified to be His government grow more and more.
Anyone reading this post potentially also has the opportunity to be one of these overcomers.

So God knows exactly what He is doing. And He is gathering co-kings to reign with Christ over the earth in the millennium.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Really?

Still waiting.
and you will be waiting till hell freezes over because Jesus said he was no more in this world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

no more

nothing further.
"there was no more to be said about it"

no further.
"you must have some soup, but no more wine"

exist no longer.
"the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"

never again.
"mention his name no more to me"

neither.
"I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Definitions from Oxford Languages

 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Soon. And will show up so that everyone can notice it.

For as the lightning comes forth from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matt. 24:27
Matthew 24:27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

It does not mean he will show up so that everyone will notice it.
If it is going to be such a huge event, why does the Bible say he will come as a thief in the night, so we should be watching, lest we miss the event?
(Rev 3:2-3 , Rev 16:15, Luke 12:39-40, Matthew 24:29-30, 42-44, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Mark 13:32-34)

When a thief breaks into the house at night, he comes in and goes out quietly, such that nobody even notices him... It is only in the morning that the homeowner realizes that he has been there because of the telltale signs he left behind.


Matthew 24:27 means the return of Christ will come from the East and appear in the West.

18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place:“But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.” (Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:
“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.
The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said:“And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’. (The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. Infact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latterdays’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said: “When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’” (The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.
(William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75)

1. The king from the sunrise

Bahá’u’lláh came from Persia, which is to the East of Israel, but to the west of India. His ministry from the time of its beginning until his last days on earth was forty years. The prophets of Syria and Palestine foretold the coming of the promised Messiah from the East. The prophets and seers from India and the Far East, said that he would appear in the West. Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh lies in between these two, and fulfils the requirements of each.

In the book of Enoch, it is prophesied that the Messiah of the last days shall come from the East of Israel, and that He shall come from the land now known as Persia. Enoch foretells: “And in those days the angels will assemble, and turn their heads towards the East, toward the people of Parthia and Medea, in order to excite the kings, and that a spirit of disturbance came over them, and disturbed them from off their thrones.” (Enoch 56:5). Parthia and Medea make up what is now the land of Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh. The Jewish oracles, the Sibylline books, also mention the coming of the Messiah from the East, saying:

“And then from the sunrise God shall send a king who shall give every land relief from the bane of war … nor shall he do these things by his own counsel, but in obedience to the good ordinances of the Mighty God.” (cited in The Messianic idea in Israel, p. 376).
Joseph Klausner, in The Messianic idea in Israel, writes: “The ‘king from the sunrise’ is, without any doubt, the King-Messiah.”

The prophet Ezekiel also foretold that the Messiah would come to the Holy Land, Israel, from the East. He even gave the title by which He would be known in that day: The Glory of God [or the Glory of the Lord]. Ezekiel recorded his vision of the last days, saying: “And behold, the Glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east
…” (Ezekiel 43:2).

In another place, Ezekiel says:“And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.”(Ezekiel 43:4).

I had already learned that the name Bahá’u’lláh was Persian, and when translated into English means, The Glory of God or The Glory of the Lord. His herald was called the Báb. This is also Persian, and translated into English means, The Gate.

The Báb was the Gate by which Bahá’u’lláh, the Glory of God, entered into the hearts of men.Bahá’u’lláh had come to Israel in exile from Persia which is to the East. I was more than satisfied by my findings. I learned that Bahá’u’lláh had completed the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad, and many secular prophesies as well—all of which pointed to the time and the place from which the Shepherd of the day of the ‘one fold’ would come.

I marked the first proof: Fulfilled.
(William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 109-111)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trailblazer I may have confused you with another poster who said Jesus was "a bold face liar."
Now if that was not you I apologize for saying you were lying to yourself. I may have gotten discussions confused.
Please forgive me if this was the case.
No, you do not have me confused with another poster. Below is the conversation as it unfolded.

@Feedmysheep said: For this reason you also be ready, because at an hour when you do not expect it, the Son of Man is coming. (Matt. 24:44)
If you think that verse refers to Jesus, either Jesus is a bold-faced liar or the Bible is inaccurate.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
This is no lie.This is your superficial misunderstanding.
He was talking about they will see Him in resurrection.

@Trailblazer said:
John 14 is part of the Farewell Discourse, which Jesus gave to his disciples after the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.

John 14
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.


This is Jesus saying that the world will not see Him again (no more) because Jesus knew He was going to die on the cross and ascend to Heaven.
But Jesus told his disciples that they see Him, meaning that they know Him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

I said that if you think Matt. 24:44 refers to Jesus, either Jesus is a bold-faced liar or the Bible is inaccurate, since Jesus said he was no more in this world.
I do not think Jesus was a bold-faced liar because I do not believe that Matt. 24:44 refers to Jesus.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
To some extent that is true. But then the word "Christianity" to me is not as precious as the name Christ.
That's why we love the Lord Jesus so much and have returned to the Bible.
Fair enough.
Now you are a Baha'i. And to some extent you also could look back
upon SOME fellow Baha'is who you now probably realize were not too cool.

Not one didn't disappoint you?
When I said "I think you have been sold a bill of goods by Christianity" I was not talking about any Christians who may have disappointed you, I was referring to the actual doctrines of Christianity.

Of course other Baha'is have disappointed me, but the actual doctrines of the Baha'i Faith have never disappointed me.
 
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