Second Coming

[Jimmy]

It means we won't die. The physical bodies of all people will die. After our physical bodies die our souls will leave our bodies and take on a new form and then we will continue to live in that new form. It will be a heavenly form, not a physical form.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157)

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
(Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194)

“not all die” meaning some do. Think about it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

At an hour you think not.

For this reason you also be ready, because at an hour when you do not expect it, the Son of Man is coming. (Matt. 24:44)

That is why the believer who has His indwelling presence must practice to abide in Him.
That is that it is not a shock when His coming upon them from without is matched by their enjoyment of Him within.

And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested,
we may have boldness and not be put to shame from Him at His coming. (1 John 2:28)

Christ trained His first disciples to live by His invisible presence.
This is why after the resurrection He alternatively appeared to them and was hidden from them.

Over the course of these weeks before His public asension He trained the disciples - they must
realize that He was with them though they could not see Him. And they got well trained.

In His coming again the same is true. Those who practice and develop the habitual abiding in the Holy Spirit
will be ready. The shock will be to those who have not developed the habit to enjoy His inward presence.

In the first rapture only those who are "watching" - vigilant - setting their mind on the spirit where the Spirit of
Christ is within them, will be prepared to be raptured. Those who were caught off guard will have to learn the hard
lesson of passing through the 3.5 year great tribulation to be raptured at its end.

Watching is not watching the sky. It is watching to live in oneness with His indwelling presence.

An observation on your interpretation and hopes.

If the event has already happened, and you have not seen that it has, it very well may be that you have to experience " The shock of those who have not developed the habit to enjoy His inward presence".

It may be the wrong interpretation has deprived people of "His inward presence".

Regards Tony

 

[Martin]

I've already arrived. We'll nuke the site from orbit, just to be sure.

 

[Trailblazer]

At an hour you think not.

For this reason you also be ready, because at an hour when you do not expect it, the Son of Man is coming. (Matt. 24:44)

If you think that verse refers to Jesus, either Jesus is a bold-faced liar or the Bible is inaccurate.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

If Jesus is a bold-faced liar why believe anything else he allegedly said in the New Testament?
If the Bible is inaccurate, why believe any other Bible verses?

 

[Trailblazer]

“not all die” meaning some do. Think about it.

You have to read the verse in context in order to understand what it means. We will not all die, because some people will already be dead.
When the trumpet sounds, which is when Christ returns, the dead and the living will both be transformed into bodies that will never die.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[j] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.[k]
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?[l]”

 

[Trailblazer]

An observation on your interpretation and hopes.

If the event has already happened, and you have not seen that it has, it very well may be that you have to experience " The shock of those who have not developed the habit to enjoy His inward presence".

It may be the wrong interpretation has deprived people of "His inward presence".

Regards Tony

I love to analyze verses, it's kind of a hobby of mine...
I just noticed something so I had to share it with you because I think you will like it.

Of course, Christians believe that is referring to the second coming of the same man Jesus.
So who is Him and He? It's not the man Jesus.

Please note that the verse says:
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He shall appear we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

The verse does not say:
28 And now, little children, abide in Me, that when I shall appear we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Me at My coming.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following verses, when taken together, are excellent proof that the Son of Man who will come in the clouds is not Jesus.

1 John 2
27 But the anointing which ye have received from Him abideth in you, and ye have no need that any man teach you. But as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He shall appear we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

The following verse refers to two individuals:
(1) Jesus, and (2) the Son of Man who will come in His own glory and in His Father’s and of the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of Me and of My words, of him shall the Son of Man be ashamed when He shall come in His own glory and in His Father’s and of the holy angels.

So the verse above means that the Son of Man will be ashamed of whoever was ashamed of Jesus and His words.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Jimmy]

You have to read the verse in context in order to understand what it means. We will not all die, because some people will already be dead.
When the trumpet sounds, which is when Christ returns, the dead and the living will both be transformed into bodies that will never die.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[j] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.[k]
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?[l]”

Because some people are already dead? That doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

That sounds a bit confusing for my taste

Sorry.

 

[Jimmy]

Sorry.

So that’s his big secret that he’s letting us in on? That some people are already dead? That doesn’t really sound like a secret to me.

 

[Trailblazer]

So that’s his big secret that he’s letting us in on? That some people are already dead? That doesn’t really sound like a secret to me.

Please bear in mind that I am only telling you what Paul meant in those verses, but I don't necessarily agree with everything that he said.

 

[Jimmy]

Please bear in mind that I am only telling you what Paul meant in those verses, but I don't necessarily agree with everything that he said.

I think he’s dead on. I just think you’re understanding it wrong. When he says not all of us will die that means when the world ends and begins again all will live again on earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think he’s dead on. I just think you’re understanding it wrong. When he says not all of us will die that means when the world ends and begins again all will live again on earth.

I do not believe the world is going to end and begin again.

 

[Jimmy]

I do not believe the world is going to end and begin again.

So you believe the dead are going to be raised right here on this world and that the living will be transformed into immortal beings right here on this world? Will this happen in secret or will we witness this miraculous event?

 

[Trailblazer]

So you believe the dead are going to be raised right here on this world and that the living will be transformed into immortal beings right here on this world? Will this happen in secret or will we witness this miraculous event?

I do not believe that any dead people are going to be raised from the dead.
I believe that when people die their bodies decompose and their souls take on a spiritual body and cross over to a spiritual world.

So people who are living now will die eventually and what I just described is what I believe will happen to them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I love to analyze verses, it's kind of a hobby of mine...
I just noticed something so I had to share it with you because I think you will like it.

Of course, Christians believe that is referring to the second coming of the same man Jesus.
So who is Him and He? It's not the man Jesus.

Please note that the verse says:
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He shall appear we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

The verse does not say:
28 And now, little children, abide in Me, that when I shall appear we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Me at My coming.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following verses, when taken together, are excellent proof that the Son of Man who will come in the clouds is not Jesus.

1 John 2
27 But the anointing which ye have received from Him abideth in you, and ye have no need that any man teach you. But as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He shall appear we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

The following verse refers to two individuals:
(1) Jesus, and (2) the Son of Man who will come in His own glory and in His Father’s and of the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of Me and of My words, of him shall the Son of Man be ashamed when He shall come in His own glory and in His Father’s and of the holy angels.

So the verse above means that the Son of Man will be ashamed of whoever was ashamed of Jesus and His words.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man...

www.religiousforums.com

I see it as abiding in the Spirit that is Christ.

As it is One with God it is tye same Spirit that all the Messengers share with us.

So it is logically impossible to abide in it, if you have reject may facets of that Spirit.

You are not able to abide in the Son if you reject the Father, the full Oneness of God's Revelations.

Regards Tony

 

[Jimmy]

I do not believe that any dead people are going to be raised from the dead.
I believe that when people die their bodies decompose and their souls take on a spiritual body and cross over to a spiritual world.

So people who are living now will die eventually and what I just described is what I believe will happen to them.

This is not what the Bible teaches. Is this a Bahai thing?

 

[Feedmysheep]

An observation on your interpretation and hopes.

The tone of Jesus about His coming is always a warning one in Matthew 24 and in Luke 17.
He explains His people going about daily mundane responsibilities - grinding, working in a field, even resting on a bed.
These are usual typical activities of all people. Yet Christ discerns some inward distinction which causes one to
be treated as something precious to be stolen. That is stolen as a thief in the night would take what is valuable.

Matt - At that time two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes. (Matt. 24:40-42)

Luke adds - I tell you, In that night there will be two on one bed; the one will be taken and the other will be left. (Luke 17:34)

Some believe that the TWO means a Christian and a non-Christian. I would say it is TWO Christians Jesus was speaking about.
If it was an automatic taking of all Christians simply because they are believers why would He warn them? Whether they watch
or not being taken would be automatic.

The hope of His coming is pretty universal. The hope that we would be found in an instant to see the One in manifestation who
lives within as the Spirit of Christ should also be as widespread. What OUGHT to be the case in the Bible is not always what IS the case.

If the event has already happened,

Do you think this event has already happened ?
Do you want to commit to the rapture already to have happened? Or are you just tossing it out there as a maybe?

and you have not seen that it has, it very well may be that you have to experience

I have no naive assumption that it could NOT be my experience.
There is no guarantee that it could not be any Christian living at that time experience.
That is why we believers do well to heed the warning.

For this reason you also be ready, because at an hour when you do not expect it, the Son of Man is coming. (Matt. 24:44)

The reason I say the warning is to two Christians because He says "your Lord" which He would not say about those who do not
own Jesus as Lord.

Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes. (v. 42)

" The shock of those who have not developed the habit to enjoy His inward presence".

The good news is that every day is a new day to practice. His mercies are fresh every morning.

It may be the wrong interpretation has deprived people of "His inward presence".

One does not have to agree with partial selective rapture in order to practice out of love
living in the presence of the Lord. Doctrinal agreement is not necessarily watching and being ready.

If what I write cools your heart down or causes unbelief in Christ in any way, please do not read what I write.
If it warms your heart to at least consider this wonderful Person, it is at least safe writing even if it is not the best interpretation.

 

[Feedmysheep]

If you think that verse refers to Jesus, either Jesus is a bold-faced liar or the Bible is inaccurate.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

This is no lie.This is your superficial misunderstanding.
He was talking about they will see Him in resurrection.

The life which is really life is the life of God which can be dispensed into us.
Life apart from the resurrected Christ within is empty, vain, futile, rather meaningless, dark and sin filled.
He was saying that is not real normal human life. That is spiritual deadness and emptiness - not knowing who one really is.

Because I live you shall live also mean knowing Him as alive and available is really life to be lived.
Like Paul told Timothy - Laying away for themselves a good foundation as a treasure for the future, that they may lay hold on that which is really life. (1 Tim. 6:19)

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

Today we phsycially do not see Jesus. Yes.
But with the eyes of our innermost spiritual being we see Him if we receive Him.
And beholding and reflecting Him like a mirror within He transforms us into the image we are gazing at.

And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:17,18)

Have you read that Jesus said it was expedient that He go away? For He could then have a more inward, intimate relationship
with their inner beings as the Comforter - the Spirit of reality.

But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?
But because I have spoken these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
But I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. (John 16:5-7)

This period in time while physically Christ is not seen upon the earth is expedient for His lovers. For He can have a more intimate and inward
relationship with their innermost being. He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17)

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

He finished the work of eternal redemption when He uttered those words "It is finished" at the cross.
Though that was the finishing of His earthly ministry it was not the completion of His heavenly ministry.

In His heavenly ministry as the great High Priest He is transmitting His life into those who receive Him to be one spirit with them.
the last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I don't see at all what you're complaining about.

If Jesus is a bold-faced liar why believe anything else he allegedly said in the New Testament?
If the Bible is inaccurate, why believe any other Bible verses?

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest expression of righteousness, ethical purity, goodness, integrity, and faithfulness -
Where on the scale would you put yourself in relation to Jesus Christ ?

I think you've been lying to yourself for years.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is not what the Bible teaches. Is this a Bahai thing?

It is a Baha'i thing, but it is also what the Bible teaches, if the Bible is interpreted correctly.

What is meant by the resurrection is that when our body dies, our spirit (soul) is resurrected and passes from one world into another. After our spirit is resurrected it continues to live forever. Please note that on the context of the afterlife the words spirit and soul have the same meaning.

The Resuscitation of Man from the Dead and His Entrance into Eternal Life

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. (Heaven and Hell, p. 351)

https://swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heaven_and_hell.pdf

What the Christian above wrote above is congruent with the Bible. The physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God, who resides in the spiritual world.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Jimmy]

It is a Baha'i thing, but it is also what the Bible teaches, if the Bible is interpreted correctly.

What is meant by the resurrection is that when our body dies, our spirit (soul) is resurrected and passes from one world into another. After our spirit is resurrected it continues to live forever. Please note that on the context of the afterlife the words spirit and soul have the same meaning.

The Resuscitation of Man from the Dead and His Entrance into Eternal Life

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. (Heaven and Hell, p. 351)

https://swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heaven_and_hell.pdf

What the Christian above wrote above is congruent with the Bible. The physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God, who resides in the spiritual world.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ok