Seven Reasons it's easier to Believe in God than to Accept Evolution

[Sabour]

And here's the problem you should be facing.
The man in your video is lying about evolution and what it.. This is something you can look up and easily prove. Go to a scientific site explaining evolution, and check for yourself if the people saying he is lying are correct, to not do so, is to choose to be ignorant of the situation...
If the man is using falsehoods in his video, is that something Allah would want, or does Allah represent truth.
If you follow Allah and there is even a chance someone is speaking falsely in his name, would Allah want you to not look and find the truth?

In all honesty, you should be more offended by that video than anyone else who has posted so.
So the question is, do you follow Allah with truth in your heart? And will you follow this mans video, even if he does speak lies

I saw no lies in what he is saying about evolution. What he said is a version of evolution that is being taught and I do trust him when he says that he asked and was told there was no link between humans and apes.


You are right about what you are saying though. Had it been proven to me that he is lying about something I wouldn't have posted the video.



Thank you for the way you've put it

 

[Ouroboros]

I saw no lies in what he is saying about evolution. What he said is a version of evolution that is being taught and I do trust him when he says that he asked and was told there was no link between humans and apes.

Transposons, ERVs, and genetic markers. All points to the close relationship with apes. The statistically probability for randomly have the same errors and transposons in our DNA as the apes, and even more with the closer apes, shows that the only probable explanation is genetic relationship, i.e. family, shared ancestry.

Here's a good article about transposons: Evolution 101: Molecular Evidence 3: Transposons

So he's wrong that there's no link between humans and apes. This is just one of them. He, and you, can choose to not believe the evidence, but the evidence do exist.

Also, it can be well studied in the fossils as well, comparing different features of the skull and bones. (I've did some comparisons like this a few years ago in class. And it's no hocus-pocus, it's really a well established and solid science behind "reading the bones." Post orbital constriction, dental formula, arcs, muscle attachments, and much more. You can even tell things from the teeth alone, molars, incisors, etc.)

 

[Alceste]

Quran didn't have it wrong, hope you watch the video I posted few comments ago

No need. Such videos can not and do not sway those who, like myself, are educated about evolution and the evidence for it. They start with a false definition of evolution and get progressively sillier from that point forward. I've watched a few, and read a couple creationist books. None deviate from that general pattern. They are only effective at keeping the faithful from becoming educated on the subject. If you hope to use them to sway people who have studied biology, even as a hobby, you will always be disappointed.

 

[Alceste]

I saw no lies in what he is saying about evolution. What he said is a version of evolution that is being taught and I do trust him when he says that he asked and was told there was no link between humans and apes.


You are right about what you are saying though. Had it been proven to me that he is lying about something I wouldn't have posted the video.



Thank you for the way you've put it

Perhaps you see no lies because you've only ever studied evolution from a creationist, anti-evolution point of view, and what he says is consistent with what all the other anti-evolutionists say. A truly awful person once observed that if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. The man in your video might not be lying, but he is definitely incorrect. Whether that is because of a lack of education, a poor education or intentional deception is anybody's guess.

 

[fantome profane]

I do trust him

A wise man once said "trust, but verify". Actually I think it is a Russian proverb.

So have you verified what he says?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Thank you for the way you've put it

And thank you for your answer, as well!
But it leads me to another question.
If I were to tell you (and I'm not, but pretend) I KNOW Islam is not true, because I learned much about it from this debate forum, and what I learned in this debate forum had led me to believe it is false, would you...
Thank me, for trying to learn about Islam
Or tell me I need to look at the Koran, or a website made by muslims, and find out information from somewhere other then only the religious educations debate forum?

In the same way, I agree completely, that the evolution in this video you posted is wrong. Absolutely agree with you... But it is not what evolution says.

In the same way that you would tell me to learn about Islam from somewhere other than this website, you should also learn about evolution from a worse that actually explains evolution...

 

[Sabour]

Transposons, ERVs, and genetic markers. All points to the close relationship with apes. The statistically probability for randomly have the same errors and transposons in our DNA as the apes, and even more with the closer apes, shows that the only probable explanation is genetic relationship, i.e. family, shared ancestry.

Here's a good article about transposons: Evolution 101: Molecular Evidence 3: Transposons

So he's wrong that there's no link between humans and apes. This is just one of them. He, and you, can choose to not believe the evidence, but the evidence do exist.

Also, it can be well studied in the fossils as well, comparing different features of the skull and bones. (I've did some comparisons like this a few years ago in class. And it's no hocus-pocus, it's really a well established and solid science behind "reading the bones." Post orbital constriction, dental formula, arcs, muscle attachments, and much more. You can even tell things from the teeth alone, molars, incisors, etc.)

Similarities doesn't necessitate a link

 

[Sabour]

A wise man once said "trust, but verify". Actually I think it is a Russian proverb.

So have you verified what he says?

Like the explanation for evolution ? Yes I have encountered such explanation.

 

[LuisDantas]

He in no way opposed knowledge.

I have just made my summary of the video, condensed by the approximate message for each minute.


0-1: It is surprising to talk about evolution in religious contexts. Islam is the only religion that has answers about the subject matter.

2: Allah is the creator of absolutely everything that exists. Evolution is about the idea that "everything evolves from something else". There are "some theories that they can't really back up", such as the Big Bang.

3: A rough tale about the development of the Earth and then of life on it.

4: The tale continues. A claim that the funny thing is "how they put it all together".

5: An admission of ignorance of the basics of speciation, presented in a way that seems to think it is defiant.

6: A straight lie about how supported and how well reputed the Theory of Evolution is. A mention of Intelligent Design.

7: A claim that the Quran supports Intelligent Design. An attempt at refutation of/claim of divine origin for the origin of Earth out of esthetical perception.

8: A statement of rejection of an existence that is not God-created.

9: An appeal to references to water as evidence for God creation, I think.

10: A rought description of primate speciation and a question about how come monkeys still exist when humans also do. He presents it as a "good question".

11: A claim that "something even bigger than a missing link" is necessary. Apparently Dr. Fatimah Jackson states that humans are not primates?

12: Some confused claim about dominant species, something about those being "what they found more of at the time".

13: A libelous statement that scientific claims do not connect to facts.

14: A claim that there was not "one specific creature" at any given time, but they existed "at the same time". A straight statement that humans are unconnected to Cro-Magnons and other primates and were "created later", and that those other primates were then destroyed.

15: A claim that humans were created "in the best way, in a perfect way" directly by God. It is suggested that human beings can not and will not evolve in the biological sense. A refutation of the idea that human beings might originate from other planets and a reference to Djinn.

16: Reference to other positions of faith and of a "choice to believe".

17: A claim that (biological) evolution is in fact a finding out of the action of God. A direct statement human beings did not evolve from other lifeforms and that the Quran does not state that they did, but rather humans were developed "in a perfected state".

18: Another mention of Intelligent Design, presented as the confirmation of the Quranic statements about "Al-Bari" (sp?), the Evolver, one of the Quranic names of God.

19: A refutation of Pantheism. A correct claim that pantheism is not monotheism, at least by the Islamic understanding.

20: A claim that the Quran accurately describes the development of children.

21: A reminding that God is the only Creator. A claim that only in Islam there are both Creation and Evolution.

22: An appeal for people to allow themselves to be guided by the Quran.


Of those 22 minutes:

1, 7, 15, 18, 22 are in essence claims that the Quran is the only reliable source for knowledge. 15 specifically is at odds with scientific findings as well.

2, 6, 10, 11, 13, 14 are untruthful statements that there is a lack of evidence for the origin of Earth, for biological evolution or specifically for the ancestry of Homo Sapiens. I wonder what Doctor Fatimah Jackson would say of this video.

3, 4, 8, 19, 20 are essentially unrelated to biological evolution.

5 is a statement of ignorance, presented in a very unfortunate way that may be intentionally misleading.

9, 12, 16, 21 are just.. odd.

17 has elements of many of the above categories.


I won't make claims about what relationship Muslims should have with the Quran, but the parts in red at the least are clearly not to the benefit of Muslims and their relationship with scientific knowledge.

 

[Sabour]

No need. Such videos can not and do not sway those who, like myself, are educated about evolution and the evidence for it. They start with a false definition of evolution and get progressively sillier from that point forward. I've watched a few, and read a couple creationist books. None deviate from that general pattern. They are only effective at keeping the faithful from becoming educated on the subject. If you hope to use them to sway people who have studied biology, even as a hobby, you will always be disappointed.

As you like.


Just to clear things, the man didn't deny evolution, but rather some points.

 

[Sabour]

And thank you for your answer, as well!
But it leads me to another question.
If I were to tell you (and I'm not, but pretend) I KNOW Islam is not true, because I learned much about it from this debate forum, and what I learned in this debate forum had led me to believe it is false, would you...
Thank me, for trying to learn about Islam
Or tell me I need to look at the Koran, or a website made by muslims, and find out information from somewhere other then only the religious educations debate forum?

In the same way, I agree completely, that the evolution in this video you posted is wrong. Absolutely agree with you... But it is not what evolution says.

In the same way that you would tell me to learn about Islam from somewhere other than this website, you should also learn about evolution from a worse that actually explains evolution...

There are many ways in which evolution is explained. What in the video you are referring to as giving wrong information ?

 

[Sabour]

I have just made my summary of the video, condensed by the approximate message for each minute.


0-1: It is surprising to talk about evolution in religious contexts. Islam is the only religion that has answers about the subject matter.

2: Allah is the creator of absolutely everything that exists. Evolution is about the idea that "everything evolves from something else". There are "some theories that they can't really back up", such as the Big Bang.

3: A rough tale about the development of the Earth and then of life on it.

4: The tale continues. A claim that the funny thing is "how they put it all together".

5: An admission of ignorance of the basics of speciation, presented in a way that seems to think it is defiant.

6: A straight lie about how supported and how well reputed the Theory of Evolution is. A mention of Intelligent Design.

7: A claim that the Quran supports Intelligent Design. An attempt at refutation of/claim of divine origin for the origin of Earth out of esthetical perception.

8: A statement of rejection of an existence that is not God-created.

9: An appeal to references to water as evidence for God creation, I think.

10: A rought description of primate speciation and a question about how come monkeys still exist when humans also do. He presents it as a "good question".

11: A claim that "something even bigger than a missing link" is necessary. Apparently Dr. Fatimah Jackson states that humans are not primates?

12: Some confused claim about dominant species, something about those being "what they found more of at the time".

13: A libelous statement that scientific claims do not connect to facts.

14: A claim that there was not "one specific creature" at any given time, but they existed "at the same time". A straight statement that humans are unconnected to Cro-Magnons and other primates and were "created later", and that those other primates were then destroyed.

15: A claim that humans were created "in the best way, in a perfect way" directly by God. It is suggested that human beings can not and will not evolve in the biological sense. A refutation of the idea that human beings might originate from other planets and a reference to Djinn.

16: Reference to other positions of faith and of a "choice to believe".

17: A claim that (biological) evolution is in fact a finding out of the action of God. A direct statement human beings did not evolve from other lifeforms and that the Quran does not state that they did, but rather humans were developed "in a perfected state".

18: Another mention of Intelligent Design, presented as the confirmation of the Quranic statements about "Al-Bari" (sp?), the Evolver, one of the Quranic names of God.

19: A refutation of Pantheism. A correct claim that pantheism is not monotheism, at least by the Islamic understanding.

20: A claim that the Quran accurately describes the development of children.

21: A reminding that God is the only Creator. A claim that only in Islam there are both Creation and Evolution.

22: An appeal for people to allow themselves to be guided by the Quran.


Of those 22 minutes:

1, 7, 15, 18, 22 are in essence claims that the Quran is the only reliable source for knowledge. 15 specifically is at odds with scientific findings as well.

2, 6, 10, 11, 13, 14 are untruthful statements that there is a lack of evidence for the origin of Earth, for biological evolution or specifically for the ancestry of Homo Sapiens. I wonder what Doctor Fatimah Jackson would say of this video.

3, 4, 8, 19, 20 are essentially unrelated to biological evolution.

5 is a statement of ignorance, presented in a very unfortunate way that may be intentionally misleading.

9, 12, 16, 21 are just.. odd.

17 has elements of many of the above categories.


I won't make claims about what relationship Muslims should have with the Quran, but the parts in red at the least are clearly not to the benefit of Muslims and their relationship with scientific knowledge.

You've got many minutes/numbers wrong. One of which you said that Quraan is the only source of knowledge.

That is not the case, Quraan is not a scientific book in the first place. But there are some facts in the Quraan.

And regarding everything is created by God, it is. You knew that this is the essence of our belief anyways.

 

[LuisDantas]

You've got many minutes/numbers wrong. One of which you said that Quraan is the only source of knowledge.

I welcome corrections.

That is not the case, Quraan is not a scientific book in the first place. But there are some facts in the Quraan.

I am not claiming that it is a scientific book. I'm surprised by how insistent some Muslims are in referring to it to matters that are not religious in nature, though. The speaker certainly did, very often in fact.

And regarding everything is created by God, it is. You knew that this is the essence of our belief anyways.

Yes, I do. What I do not know is why so many of you interpret that in such a way as to reject scientific findings.

 

[Sabour]

I welcome corrections.

Am afraid that is not possible because they are matters of how one reads a person. It is opinions matters.

I am not claiming that it is a scientific book. I'm surprised by own insistent some Muslims are in referring to it to matters that are not religious in nature, though. The speaker certainly did, very often in fact.

I didn't understand, why I face English problem when replying to you

Yes, I do. What I do not know is why so many of you interpret that in such a way as to reject scientific findings

Because we believe that there are somethings which are not true in the first place.

 

[LuisDantas]

I didn't understand, why I face English problem when replying to you

Sorry. I was saying that yes, the Quran is not a book about science, but it is often treated as if it were, most often by Muslims themselves.

The speaker certainly made a point of stating, several times and insistently, that science is confirming that the Quran says.

Because we believe that there are somethings which are not true in the first place.

There is belief, and then there is attempting to deny what is found to be true.

 

[Sabour]

Sorry. I was saying that yes, the Quran is not a book about science, but it is often treated as if it were, most often by Muslims themselves.

The speaker certainly made a point of stating, several times and insistently, that science is confirming that the Quran says.




There is belief, and then there is attempting to deny what is found to be true.

Yep that is because as I said Quraan has some hints and theories, like saying that mountains are as pegs. This can be considered a scienrific information.


As for the last line, I meant by the word "believe" that we think that this is not found to be true in the first place, as a matter of fact it is false.

All that is denied in the video is that people originated from apes. That is something I am sure of. There will be no evidence provided and accessible to people ever because such evidence doesn't exist.

 

[Ouroboros]

Similarities doesn't necessitate a link

These do.

If you understand how it works, then you see why it does.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yep that is because as I said Quraan has some hints and theories, like saying that mountains are as pegs. This can be considered a scienrific information.

A hint, certainly. Information, no doubt - although it can be tricky to deal with such a strongly allegorical book as the Quran. But not really scientific.

As for the last line, I meant by the word "believe" that we think that this is not found to be true in the first place, as a matter of fact it is false.

And that puts us all on a difficult situation. There is only so much that we can do before attempting to deal with the actual findings, with the actual scientific knowledge.

Ultimately, we have to state outright that biological evolution, and specifically the origin of humans as an offshot of other primates, is no longer passible of reasonable doubt. It is unpleasant to say that well-meaning religious people are flat out wrong on the matter, but there is not really a choice.

All that is denied in the video is that people originated from apes. That is something I am sure of. There will be no evidence provided and accessible to people ever because such evidence doesn't exist.

The evidence has been available for decades, though, and there is no serious challenge to it anymore. Fossil record, biological markers, archeological circunstance... at this point it is no longer doubt or discordance, it is outright denial of known facts.

One thing that the video did teach me is that there is an issue with the idea that humans may have developed spontaneously instead of being created in a final, stable form. However, that too is denial of known facts.

See for instance

Humans As a Case Study for the Evidence of Evolution

and Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program


Whether there is anything in the Quran or in Islamic doctrine that needs humans to be apart from biological evolution I don't know and do not want to guess. But to claim that humans have not developed from other hominids is flat out uninformed at best.

 

[Alceste]

As you like.


Just to clear things, the man didn't deny evolution, but rather some points.

Which points?

 

[Thief]

Just a quicky here.....

I believe in God AND evolution.
I also believe God can tweak His creation whenever.