Shedding blood in the name of God.

[jeffrey]

Are you saying Dawny makes up things?

Did I say that? LOL. This is becoming comical. :biglaugh:

 

[Bishka]

Did I say that? LOL. This is becoming comical. :biglaugh:

I was confused by what you had written when you were talking to Dawny in the last page

Dawny, try READING what I but, not making things up of what I said, which you do so much of.

Post #74

What are you trying to say?

 

[jeffrey]

Through out this thread and the one before this we debated it, I have asked her countless times, "Show me were I said that." Once again... Stating that I feel God is not justified for killing in the ot. Show me were I said that.

 

[Bishka]

Through out this thread and the one before this we debated it, I have asked her countless times, "Show me were I said that." Once again... Stating that I feel God is not justified for killing in the ot. Show me were I said that.

Ah, gotcha, I think?

 

[jeffrey]

Once again, IMO, I doubt the stories as 100% correct. I do not believe that God EVER Would, could, has, condoned the killing of innocent children. Look what Christ said about leading children into sin. If you believe that Christ is God, then to believe in the OT as 100% truth is to believe that God is a Jekell and Hyde. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. God is and always has been love.

 

[jeffrey]

In a nutshell, Some are defending God's actions. I'm defending God as being innocent of those actions.

 

[dawny0826]

well Dawny I guess it depends on which war you're talking about. The Crusades were not fought to defend the right to worship... they were fought to gain more people, money and land, and if the "infidels" wouldn't convert they were killed. They were fighting a "Holy War" in the name of G-d. They searched for holy relics to take home *in other words they looted everything they could find*. etc etc... Bear in mind I'm not knocking you or Christianity here.... just about every religion throughout history has had enough zealots at some point to put together a good battle

I hear you.

 

[dawny0826]

Dawny, try READING what I but, not making things up of what I said, which you do so much of.

Thanks.

 

[dawny0826]

Through out this thread and the one before this we debated it, I have asked her countless times, "Show me were I said that." Once again... Stating that I feel God is not justified for killing in the ot. Show me were I said that.

You said this...did you not?

NEVER will I believe that God has ever condoned these actions.

I felt it was implied...

Because God HAS condoned death within the Bible.

I don't think that you and I were referring to the same "actions".

 

[dawny0826]

In a nutshell, Some are defending God's actions. I'm defending God as being innocent of those actions.

But what of instances where GOD commanded his people to carry out certain actions?

Is there really any guilty party...in these instances?

This is what I've been trying to point out to you throughout this whole thread. And used examples from the OT of the Bible.

I thought your thread was about Christians and those who kill and shed blood in the name of God.

Keep in mind that many Christians DO believe God as he is depicted in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.

 

[BUDDY]

Wow, I really don't know where to go with this, so I will just give you my opinion on the matter. In the Old Testament, God's people (the Hebrew nation) were ordered by God to take the land of Canaan, and in several instances to destroy the people in certain places of Canaan because of their wickedness. I believe that He commanded this, and I believe that His people obeyed Him. Yes, God did command for the wicked to be destroyed, and He commanded them directly. Does this include the destruction of children? Yes, I can only assume so. I am not sure why, except to say that the type of things that were being one at the time were so heinous, that perhaps He did not want the practices to be taken up by the Hebrew nation, and therefore wanted all of these people to be destroyed. In the new testament, and with the advent of the new convenant between God and man, we are commanded to live our lives in love for one another. There is no more a direct command, from God himself, to destroy people and conquer nations. Those who did so in the name of christianity, were wrong IMO, and were simply using God selfishly as a tool to spur on those who were ignorant of God and His ways.

A better questions would be, given the state of the world today, can you name the last time that one nation of people made war against another in the name of christianity? I'll give you a hint. It hasn't happened since the 19th century. In other words, the atheistic apologist who argues for an end to christianity because of all the wars christians have started in the name of God, fail to realize that it has been over one hundred years since such reasons have been given. And just in case you do mention it, while Hitler did murder millions in the name of aryan dominance and the master race, he never did so or raise public support in the name of christianity or catholacism.

 

[dawny0826]

Once again, IMO, I doubt the stories as 100% correct. I do not believe that God EVER Would, could, has, condoned the killing of innocent children. Look what Christ said about leading children into sin. If you believe that Christ is God, then to believe in the OT as 100% truth is to believe that God is a Jekell and Hyde. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. God is and always has been love.

I agree. God is and always has been love.

And I believe this...EVEN when I read the OT.

 

[dawny0826]

Wow, I really don't know where to go with this, so I will just give you my opinion on the matter. In the Old Testament, God's people (the Hebrew nation) were ordered by God to take the land of Canaan, and in several instances to destroy the people in certain places of Canaan because of their wickedness. I believe that He commanded this, and I believe that His people obeyed Him. Yes, God did command for the wicked to be destroyed, and He commanded them directly. Does this include the destruction of children? Yes, I can only assume so. I am not sure why, except to say that the type of things that were being one at the time were so heinous, that perhaps He did not want the practices to be taken up by the Hebrew nation, and therefore wanted all of these people to be destroyed. In the new testament, and with the advent of the new convenant between God and man, we are commanded to live our lives in love for one another. There is no more a direct command, from God himself, to destroy people and conquer nations. Those who did so in the name of christianity, were wrong IMO, and were simply using God selfishly as a tool to spur on those who were ignorant of God and His ways.

A better questions would be, given the state of the world today, can you name the last time that one nation of people made war against another in the name of christianity? I'll give you a hint. It hasn't happened since the 19th century. In other words, the atheistic apologist who argues for an end to christianity because of all the wars christians have started in the name of God, fail to realize that it has been over one hundred years since such reasons have been given. And just in case you do mention it, while Hitler did murder millions in the name of aryan dominance and the master race, he never did so or raise public support in the name of christianity or catholacism.

Buddy, thank you for a very well composed post.

I wish I had half the common sense to present my ideas in the manner that you just did.

 

[jeffrey]

:banghead3: You have no proof that God ordered the murder of innocent children, other then a book that was written thousands of years ago from stories passed down from generation to generation. Like I said, If you wish to see God as murderous, child killing, woman raping God, so be it. I choose to see God as Christ.

 

[jeffrey]

Buddy, thank you for a very well composed post.

I wish I had half the common sense to present my ideas in the manner that you just did.

This we agree on.

 

[Booko]

And just in case you do mention it, while Hitler did murder millions in the name of aryan dominance and the master race, he never did so or raise public support in the name of christianity or catholacism.

Hm, that raises another question: If this were the 1930s and Hitler came to power and was gassing Jews by the millions, and Christians claimed God told them to put an end to that, would anyone really have a problem with their "violence."

I wonder what an account of that might look like to people thousands of years from now?

 

[dawny0826]

:banghead3: You have no proof that God ordered the murder of innocent children, other then a book that was written thousands of years ago from stories passed down from generation to generation. Like I said, If you wish to see God as murderous, child killing, woman raping God, so be it. I choose to see God as Christ.

No need to give yourself a headache, there Jeffrey...I'm bowing out.

 

[dawny0826]

This we agree on.

That I lacked common sense? Later, Jeffrey.

 

[jeffrey]

That I lacked common sense? Later, Jeffrey.

LOL! No, the part of him making an excellent post and points. I agreed with you that he worded it well.

 

[jeffrey]

Booko, I was thinking the same thing. a thousand or 2 years for now, how would WW2 be told? Especially if the story was passed down from generation to generation, no film, no history books, just word of mouth.