Shocked To Find Out Yahweh Was Originally A Canaanite God Who Had A Wife, Asherah

[joelr]

I don't think much of it, at all.

It's just one person hypothesis, based on an internet website.

So, yeah...Let's stack that against a mountain of legitimate scholarship to the contrary...

No it is consensus in the OT historicity field and biblical archeology field that the Israelites emerged from the Canaanites and that there was a Yahweh associated with the Canaanites and that early Israelites did worship a goddess. In some early sites statues saying Yahweh and his Ashera have been found as well as goddess figurines that are believed to be Ashera.

William Denver talks about it here:
Archeology of the Hebrew Bible

In early Hebrew variants of Deuteronomy it was more clear that El was the highest god and he gave Israel to Yahweh.

at 1:17:06
Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou explains

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I think I gave a citation for my quote. I can give you another one if you wish.

Like I said. The prophecy against Tyre has been fulfilled.

 

[Harel13]

consensus

Consensus? I'm pretty sure pottery studies suggest otheriwse.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Like I said. The prophecy against Tyre has been fulfilled.

In Ezekiel 29:1-15, God states that Egypt will be made into a desolate wasteland. Egypt is NOT a desolate wasteland.
God sets out a checklist of specific events that will occur:

1. Egypt and everything from the tower of Syene to Ethiopia will be desolate and waste
2. God will own the Nile
3. No humans will walk through Egypt
4. No animals will walk through Egypt
5. Nobody will live in Egypt for 40 years
6. Egyptians will leave Egypt and be scattered among other nations
7. After 40 years of scattering, Egypt will be repopulated by the scattered Egyptians
8. Egypt will be a weak kingdom, and will never control "the nations"
   Never happened.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

In Ezekiel 29:1-15, God states that Egypt will be made into a desolate wasteland. Egypt is NOT a desolate wasteland.
God sets out a checklist of specific events that will occur:

1. Egypt and everything from the tower of Syene to Ethiopia will be desolate and waste
2. God will own the Nile
3. No humans will walk through Egypt
4. No animals will walk through Egypt
5. Nobody will live in Egypt for 40 years
6. Egyptians will leave Egypt and be scattered among other nations
7. After 40 years of scattering, Egypt will be repopulated by the scattered Egyptians
8. Egypt will be a weak kingdom, and will never control "the nations"
   Never happened.

It didn't say it would be a desolate wasteland forever. You didn't prove it didn't happen. I know whatever God said would happen did.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

It didn't say it would be a desolate wasteland forever. You didn't prove it didn't happen. I know whatever God said would happen did.

Here's the Bible scripture. I can't do any more than that for you. Read it and weep.
Ezekiel 29:9-15
And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it. Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries. Yet thus saith the Lord GOD; At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people whither they were scattered: And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom. It shall be the basest of the kingdoms; neither shall it exalt itself any more above the nations: for I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Here's the Bible scripture. I can't do any more than that for you. Read it and weep.
Ezekiel 29:9-15
And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it. Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries. Yet thus saith the Lord GOD; At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people whither they were scattered: And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom. It shall be the basest of the kingdoms; neither shall it exalt itself any more above the nations: for I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.

No need to weep. Whatever he said would happen did. And just like he said it is a base nation now, and doesn't rule over the other nations anymore.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

No need to weep. Whatever he said would happen did.

I give up.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I give up.

ok - Now what about the prophecy regarding the 70 year Babylonian Captivity? Jeremiah 25:11-12 Did that happen? Answer: It sure did just as history records that it did.

And when the 70 years was expired did Babylon get punished and become desolate? Answer - Yes and it is desolate to this day. God said it would never be inhabited. I read in a history book where Alexander the Great wanted to revive it and make it the capitol of his kingdom. But then he suddenly died of a raging fever. When God says something will be - it will be.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

ok - Now what about the prophecy regarding the 70 year Babylonian Captivity? Jeremiah 25:11-12 Did that happen? Answer: It sure did just as history records that it did.

And when the 70 years was expired did Babylon get punished and become desolate? Answer - Yes and it is desolate to this day. God said it would never be inhabited. I read in a history book where Alexander the Great wanted to revive it and make it the capitol of his kingdom. But then he suddenly died of a raging fever. When God says something will be - it will be.

I could give you 20 failed prophecies out of the OT and several out of the New right now--but it's late and I'm going to bed and you'd just deny every single one anyway, so like I said, I give up.

 

[1213]

I never said "The Bible is irrelevant". Please point that out to me if I did.

You said in post #123 “The Bible as a source of evidence is irrelevant”. So, sorry, I was not accurate enough. However, I think that same can be said about the tablets.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

1. Upsetting to be called ignorant.
2. Upsetting to be told that your Gods are false and Pagan. But are they true Gods? Is our God false? If they had their Gods first, then Jews copied their Gods, how could the God of the Jews be a true God? Christians and Muslims are some form of Jews (since the Christian and Muslim religions came from the Jewish religion). How can the Christian and Muslim religion have a true God if that God is the same God as the Jewish God, and that Jewish God might not be the true God?
I prefer not to insult people and call them ignorant because they believe something different that I do. I prefer not to insult others by telling them that their God is Pagan whereas my God is real.

I want to apologize because I did Not mean that a lack of Bible education is calling anyone as ignorant.
We all lack knowledge in some way or another, so please accept my apology for any upset I may have caused.
Yes, Christians whether ' wheat or weed/tares ' (true or false) and Muslims are from the Jews.
A separation takes place in that Christians trace back their roots to father Abraham only through son -> ' Isaac '.
God gives us all free-will choices to choose as to which God we will serve, and we should respect that gift from God.

To me Pagan is basically meaning non-biblical or not biblical.
Look at the holidays: they are Pagan or non-biblical in nature, and how beloved those 5,000+ years of tradition is still celebrated.
It is Christendom that took those ancient Pagan or non-biblical holidays and wrongly pasted Christian names on them.
Again, sorry for any upset as my comment was Not meant to be insulting but that we can all grow in having more knowledge on subjects.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Ezekiel 29:1-15, God states that Egypt will be made into a desolate wasteland. Egypt is NOT a desolate wasteland. God sets out a checklist of specific events that will occur:

1. Egypt and everything from the tower of Syene to Ethiopia will be desolate and waste
2. God will own the Nile
3. No humans will walk through Egypt
4. No animals will walk through Egypt
5. Nobody will live in Egypt for 40 years
6. Egyptians will leave Egypt and be scattered among other nations
7. After 40 years of scattering, Egypt will be repopulated by the scattered Egyptians
8. Egypt will be a weak kingdom, and will never control "the nations" Never happened.

To me Ezekiel 29:1-16 is a prophecy against Pharaoh ( Egypt to be given to Babylon as a reward - Ezekiel 29:17-21)
Pharaoh was cut down by the ' sword of the king of Babylon ' - Ezekiel 31:2-3,12; Ezekiel 32:11-12, etc.
Egypt was desolated for 40 years 'after' the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 607 (BCE) the remnant of Judah fled to Egypt despite Jeremiah's warning ( Jeremiah 24:1; Jeremiah 24:8-12; Jeremiah 43:7-22 )
That fleeing did Not prove to be an escape for them because Nebuchadnezzar came up against Egypt conquering Egypt.
Thus, Not permanent but the ' 40 years of desolation of Egypt ' back then could have followed his conquest.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

To me Ezekiel 29:1-16 is a prophecy against Pharaoh ( Egypt to be given to Babylon as a reward - Ezekiel 29:17-21)
Pharaoh was cut down by the ' sword of the king of Babylon ' - Ezekiel 31:2-3,12; Ezekiel 32:11-12, etc.
Egypt was desolated for 40 years 'after' the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 607 (BCE) the remnant of Judah fled to Egypt despite Jeremiah's warning ( Jeremiah 24:1; Jeremiah 24:8-12; Jeremiah 43:7-22 )
That fleeing did Not prove to be an escape for them because Nebuchadnezzar came up against Egypt conquering Egypt.
Thus, Not permanent but the ' 40 years of desolation of Egypt ' back then could have followed his conquest.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Here is something I found:

There are 2 views of this prophecy: 1) Is that it occured in 588BCE, 2 years after Ezekiel made his prophecy(590BCE); which sets the Destruction of Jerusalem at 607BCE, instead of 587BCE. Egypt, being carried off in captivity, and so are those reminants of Jersalem who fled to Egypt in defiance of Jeremiah's prophecy(Jer. 42:15,16,19; 43:10,11) This date would allow for a 40 year captivity period, ending with an alliance of Nabonidus(Babylon) with King Amasis II of Egypt. Since Egypt had already been taken captive-it was reduced to a 'vassal state' by the later date-agreeing with the prophecy of Ezekiel.


However, all of this fails if the Babylonian captivity stated in 568BCE; then Egypt would have only been captive 21 years, and even if there were no alliance between Babylon and Egypt(from the Nebuchnezzar Inscription tablet in the British Museum) Cyrus would have freed ALL captives 8 years later, in 539BCE.

Although Egypt had long ceased from the Age of the Pharoah's of being a world power, there's no conclusive source to prove(or disprove) that one would not be able to walk from one end to the other for 40 years. Given that assertion, it suggests the prophecy would have to wait until the end times to be fulfilled.

To me, all this "40 years" stuff we constantly run across in the OT doesn't pass the smell test. Everything in the Bible is 40 years or 40 days, maybe 40 hours or even 40 minutes, but it's always the number 40. This smacks of Jewish Kabbalah mysticism to me. Numbers have symbolic means to the Jews that's why they always have Yahweh doing things for 40 years--Hebrews wandering in Sinai for 40 years; Egypt desolate for 40 years; Moses, Elijah and Jesus fasted in the desert for 40 days each; Ezekiel laid on his right side for 40 days to “bear the iniquity” of Judea’s sins; Three kings reigned for 40 years each: Saul, David and Solomon; God destroyed every living thing on Earth by flooding it for 40 days and on and on. It's all too much to be believed.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

You said in post #123 “The Bible as a source of evidence is irrelevant”. So, sorry, I was not accurate enough. However, I think that same can be said about the tablets.

I never said the Bible itself is irrelevant. I said that the Bible as a SOURCE of evidence is irrelevant. It's pointless to try to use the Bible to prove the flood occurred or the Exodus happened because we already know from scientific research that those two events never happened. The earth never had a worldwide flood and 3 million Jews never left Egypt. That doesn't mean there aren't some interesting, even relevant points to be taken from the Bible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Like I said. The prophecy against Tyre has been fulfilled.

No, it failed spectacularly. In fact the Bible tells you how it failed.

The only way to claim that it was fulfilled is if you lower all prophecy to the level of me prophesizing that :

"The next time you go out on the freeway you will see a red car."

Now am I a biblical prophet? If not the prophesy failed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes it was fulfilled. The original area where Tyre was is no longer inhabited. Just because a place close to it was given the same name of Tyre and is now inhabited, doesn't mean the prophecy wasn't fulfilled.

I see, you bought the lies of apologists.

This is not true. Study the history of Tyre. The money and power of Tyre was always centered on the island city. Read the Bible. It describes the island Tyre. The property that was "destroyed" were called "its settlements" in the Bible. The money and power in New York City is in the city itself. Not the surrounding lands. The same applied to Tyre. It was never destroyed as the Bible said it would be. And it also said who would destroy it. He failed. You need to read your Bible. And drop the "God glasses". That is just trying to find excuses for the inexcusable.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

No, it failed spectacularly. In fact the Bible tells you how it failed.

The only way to claim that it was fulfilled is if you lower all prophecy to the level of me prophesizing that :

"The next time you go out on the freeway you will see a red car."

Now am I a biblical prophet? If not the prophesy failed.

Funny enough, after I read your post I got on the freeway and indeed I saw a red BMW. I'm beginning to wonder, Subduction. Are you Ezekiel in disguise?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Funny enough, after I read your post I got on the freeway and indeed I saw a red BMW. I'm beginning to wonder, Subduction. Are you Ezekiel in disguise?

For my next Earth shattering prophecy: The Sun will set in the West.

By the way, if one studies the history of Tyre, the island of course, one finds that it has been attacked many times in the past because it was a valued port and had a unique resource that made them rich They had great walls built because they were attacked, not just for fun. They had been invaded and conquered in the past and of course they were attacked after Nebuchadnezzar failed. Some of those attacks ultimately succeeded, some did not. Yet the land is still there and it is still inhabited. If one reads the prophecy in context it is clear that it is talking about the island. In fact their defense used to be similar to that of Russia when attacked from Eastern Europe. The Russians would just retread and wait for winter. The people of Tyre would flee to the island and live there, they still got goods from the sea since they were a natural port, and wait for their attackers to give up. The settlements were not that important to them.


If you care to read it here is an article by someone that did quite a bit of research into the topic, sources are listed, though you would probably have to go to a university library to access some of them:

Biblical Errancy: Ezekiel's Prophecy of Tyre: a failed prophecy

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

For my next Earth shattering prophecy: The Sun will set in the West.

By the way, if one studies the history of Tyre, the island of course, one finds that it has been attacked many times in the past because it was a valued port and had a unique resource that made them rich They had great walls built because they were attacked, not just for fun. They had been invaded and conquered in the past and of course they were attacked after Nebuchadnezzar failed. Some of those attacks ultimately succeeded, some did not. Yet the land is still there and it is still inhabited. If one reads the prophecy in context it is clear that it is talking about the island. In fact their defense used to be similar to that of Russia when attacked from Eastern Europe. The Russians would just retread and wait for winter. The people of Tyre would flee to the island and live there, they still got goods from the sea since they were a natural port, and wait for their attackers to give up. The settlements were not that important to them.


If you care to read it here is an article by someone that did quite a bit of research into the topic, sources are listed, though you would probably have to go to a university library to access some of them:

Biblical Errancy: Ezekiel's Prophecy of Tyre: a failed prophecy

Thank you. Interesting read. The list of failed prophecies is truly....well, of Biblical proportions. All one has to do is google "Failed Bible prophecies" to get an idea of how wrong Yahweh could get it. But then, what would you expect from a failed lesser Canaanite god?