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Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Yes, in this context it seems to mean the full day, however, I believe that it doesn't 'have' to mean the full day, when night is also specified. Whether it means the full day or not, depends on the verse/s/.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 56:6-7 refers to those who convert to Judaism. Those who don't convert have no obligation to observe the Sabbath.
Joel 4:2 is about the messianic days when the nations are punished for the exiles imposed on the nation of Israel.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Jesus never said do not follow the Sabbath. Instead, He wanted His followers to change perspective in how they worshiped on the Sabbath. So their worship isn't based on the day that they worshiped or put aside, but the meaning and focus which is on God. That's why He says the Sabbath isn't made for man, but man for the Sabbath. Since the Sabbath is a day for God, Christians and Jews alike, this day is made for them, not the other way around.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Gentles made up a small fraction at first in Israel, so full recognition of the Sabbath by all made sense, especially because there'a always going to be interactions between gentiles and Jews in small communities. You have to remember that the Sabbath Laws involve quite a few prohibitions.
But no matter how one may try and look at it, the reality is that no Christian group today observes the Sabbath as directed by Torah, and it's quite clear in the gospels that the early church began to walk away from full Torah observance.
outhouse
Atheistically
And it may be safe to say very few Jews agree on how to interpret Sabbath as directed by Torah.
And it is safe to say first century Judaism was so diverse it did not agree on full Torah observance either.
dantech
Well-Known Member
Where did you get that very few Jews agree on how to interpret Sabbath as directed by Torah?
Dear dantech,
It seems to me, as a casual observer, that all "Jews" do not observe the Sabbath in the same manner. The fact that they disagree on quite a bit more would be another point.
Dear metis,
The Law is not about making "sense", but about being set apart. You also seem to link those "foreigners" who set themselves apart are likened to "Christians". The "Christians" have followed their god emperor Constantine, in keeping his "day of rest", being the day of his sun god Sol Invictus. Those who keep God's Laws are marked per Dt 6:8. Those who keep the decrees and laws of the god king Constantine, have his mark, and according to Revelations, will drink of the wine of the "wrath of God." (Rev 14:9-10).
Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)
On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Christians do keep the sabbath but they keep it on a Sunday.
I have never had a problem with that.
The actual day of the week is hardly of any importance.
How they keep the Sabbath is down to their own church, and not laid down in a covenant. Christians have no formal covenant with God.
I have never had a problem with that.
The actual day of the week is hardly of any importance.
How they keep the Sabbath is down to their own church, and not laid down in a covenant. Christians have no formal covenant with God.
Dear rose,
Isaiah 56:6-7 refers to "those who joint themselves to the lord". Judaism is not the lord.
Joel 3:1-2 is about "when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem" and then gather the nations who have scattered "My inheritance, Israel, ...among the nations". The northern 10 tribes, known as Israel, are still scattered among the nations. The Jews basically represent Judah, Benjamin, and the Levites. The stick of Ephraim, which represents Israel, has not been reunited with the stick of Judah. (Ex 37:19) And king David does not rule over the combined sticks at this time (Ex 37:24)
If you should glance at Zechariah 14, you will find that "the lord will be king over all the earth", does not happen until all the nations gather around Jerusalem and capture the city (Ze 14:2), and at the time the lord will plague the nations with a plague whereas their skin will fall off while they stand, their tongues will rot in their mouths, and their eyes will run down their cheeks. This is the same description given to the victims of Hiroshema. This hasn't happened yet.
Dear Terry,
"Christians" keep the Sabbath established by Constantine in the year 321 AD. Constantine was the beast with two horns like a lamb, who was to deceive "those who dwell on the earth". (Rev 13) Constantine glorified Peter and Paul, his two horns, by building them both basilicas, which are churches in the form of the pagan cross. These two shepherds, are the two shepherds taken to "pasture the flock doomed to slaughter", the "Christian" church. Paul was the shepherd called "Favor" for his false gospel of "Grace", which according to Zech 11:10, was an effort to "break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples." Which was made with Abraham, the father of nations. The second shepherd of Ze 11 was Peter, who was referred to as the "worthless shepherd" who would not feed, care, or tend the sheep, but eat of their fat.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I agree, the Sabbath is the Sabbath, Sunday is not the Sabbath and it can never be the Sabbath, the Seventh Day Adventist that I use to belong to, were one of the only churches that kept the Sabbath.
rosends
Well-Known Member
But it speaks of God's nation "Israel" straight through the book (most recently in chapter 55. To attach to the lord by following his laws connects one to "his people" (56:3). So we are talking about those who converted to Judaism.
which is why I said it refers to the future messianic days.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Define the Sabbath how you like....
Christians define their holy day as both the Sabbath and as Sunday
To define it by the days of a mythical creation seems senseless.
God exists outside time and is not constrained by the days of the week in any way.
There is one God... and seven days to our week. Muslims have Friday as their special prayer day, the Jews celebrate the sabbath on Saturday. and the Christians Have Sunday set aside for rest and prayer.
Faith and prayer are not for the Sabbath alone, it is not as if the remaining days of the week are for the faithless.
Dear rose,
The restoration of Judah and Jerusalem is not "future". It is in the here and now. The fact that "Israel" is scattered among the nations is not "future", but the here and now. Israel is not Judah, whereas Judah has been part of Israel. The "nation" of Israel is with respect to the edict of 1948, which actually only includes Judah, Benjamin, the Levites, with a small smattering of other tribes. Judah and Israel have been accurately described by God as harlots. That applies to past, and present. It is not until they are struck down that they will return to God. That refers to after the nations who surround Jerusalem capture the city, and the "lord" intervenes. The revival of Israel and Judah will not occur until after 2 days, or 2000 years "after I go away" (Hosea 5:14), according to Hosea 6:2.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Neither the theocratic Judah nor the temple in Jerusalem has been restored. Therefore, they will happen in the future. Not the now. The fact that the 10 tribes of Israel are still scattered means that the ingathering will happen in the future. The "nation" of Israel does not include any tribes as it is a geopolitical construct. The current form of Judaism is composed of descendants of (primarily) those tribes you list. Your interpretation of Hosea is delightful but totally irrelevant to the Jewish understanding of Judaism and the law God gave to the Jews. I try my best not to tell Russians what Russian law means. I'm not Russian.
The reason most people don't keep Sabbath is that they are assured that they don't need to by seemingly very smart people who supposedly understand everything. This is all very complicated. I don't know exactly why Christians don't keep Sabbath, but I know some of the reasons that people give for it. So much time has passed that I'm not sure the reasons will fit under a microscope any more.
It isn't that people aren't serious about their religion. They are serious about it, and some people opt for partially keeping Sabbath. For example when I was a child one family that went to our church would lay about the house on Sunday with their lights turned down and would not do anything, and even their kids couldn't go out to play. On Friday and Saturday they lived normally.
It isn't that people aren't serious about their religion. They are serious about it, and some people opt for partially keeping Sabbath. For example when I was a child one family that went to our church would lay about the house on Sunday with their lights turned down and would not do anything, and even their kids couldn't go out to play. On Friday and Saturday they lived normally.