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Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

Unification

Well-Known Member
Isn't it arguable that Christians should be keeping Shabbat since they claim to follow the ten commandments? Certainly Jesus and the disciples kept it, seeing as they were Jews. What argument can really be brought forward that Christians shouldn't be keeping it, and do the gospels anywhere explicitly suggest Jesus wouldn't want his followers to?

People are too worried about useless irrelevant literal days, to the point there is arguing, etc because of mankind's created rules and interpretations. Every breath and every day is in the Lord's rest and peace when one is truly set free with truth, and the human is kept holy and pure, doing no more outward works in vain and as vanity under the sun.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Neither the theocratic Judah nor the temple in Jerusalem has been restored. Therefore, they will happen in the future. Not the now. The fact that the 10 tribes of Israel are still scattered means that the ingathering will happen in the future. The "nation" of Israel does not include any tribes as it is a geopolitical construct. The current form of Judaism is composed of descendants of (primarily) those tribes you list. Your interpretation of Hosea is delightful but totally irrelevant to the Jewish understanding of Judaism and the law God gave to the Jews. I try my best not to tell Russians what Russian law means. I'm not Russian.

When one is ready to unite all 12 nerves around the brain in perfect harmony and oneness, then the temple will be restored by truth and alteration of conscious.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
In order for myself to understand the sabbath and keeping it holy(sacred) I would be thinking in terms of what logic from other passages in scripture revels to us about why this might be so. Moses knowledge for some is seen as mesh of egyptian and Hebrew thought.
Slaves will not find any contention in being a slave if one does not allow them to rest.
Now, on a larger scale or sum, we are the slaves, remember that the earth is cursed.*

Yes, the earth(physical body/flesh) is cursed by lower nature. When one joins higher nature with lower nature, divine marriage is created and one leaves the natural and becomes spiritual. Law becoming grace. Automatic higher conscious and awareness, and purity of love, peace, and oneness. One can never enter permanent rest in the Lord if they allow things of the lower mind/lower self to enslave them into prison (divide, hate, judgement, anger, lust, greed, stress, etc is slavery.) and taking lies and literal days will always thwart ones attempt to enter this beautiful rest. It's the conditioning of the lower self/mind that needs defeated.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Isn't it arguable that Christians should be keeping Shabbat since they claim to follow the ten commandments? Certainly Jesus and the disciples kept it, seeing as they were Jews. What argument can really be brought forward that Christians shouldn't be keeping it, and do the gospels anywhere explicitly suggest Jesus wouldn't want his followers to?
The thing is, who defines what is ''keeping the sabbath'? What rules does not entail, and who is making the rules?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Dear metis,
The Law is not about making "sense", but about being set apart. You also seem to link those "foreigners" who set themselves apart are likened to "Christians"...

I did not say nor implied that.

There was an unorganized group commonly called "God-Fearers" that often hung around the Temple and other sites who believed in our concept of God but whom were not Jewish. They were bound by the Laws that dealt with what we might call "civil law", but were usually not expected to uphold what we might call "religious law" (for us, one is the same as the other). For example, they would have to obey the Law dealing with murder but not the Laws dealing with the Temple sacrifices.

Also, the movement from obeying the Sabbath to having Sunday being the primary day of organized worship for Christians took place in the 2nd century, and we see evidence of this gradual movement in the Didache, whereas the early church took part in the "agape meal" on that day. Even though historians cannot pinpoint a specific day nor location whereas this shift took place, by the end of that century it appears that most congregations shifted to that practice.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Christians define their holy day as both the Sabbath and as Sunday

But many Christians realize that this really doesn't make much sense as the Sabbath is the name of a day of the week, so calling Sunday the "Sabbath" is like saying Sunday is Saturday? Instead, many Christians use "the Lord's Day" for Sunday.
 

rstrats

Active Member
re: "Instead, many Christians use 'the Lord's Day' for Sunday."


For which there is no scriptural support for doing that.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
re: "Instead, many Christians use 'the Lord's Day' for Sunday."


For which there is no scriptural support for doing that.
Not everything that happens in the world or with the church is found in the Bible.

Since the church gradually became dominated by gentiles that were not bound by the Law, it's quite understandable that they would eventually decide which day to use as their day of rest and worship, and Sunday was and is believed to be Jesus' resurrection day.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
But many Christians realize that this really doesn't make much sense as the Sabbath is the name of a day of the week, so calling Sunday the "Sabbath" is like saying Sunday is Saturday? Instead, many Christians use "the Lord's Day" for Sunday.

May be where you live.

Most people on the street here would identify the sabbath with Sunday. That includes Christians.

Sabbath only means saturday if that is the meaning you give it.

the number of people with a deeper knowledge of past meanings is miniscule
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
May be where you live.

Most people on the street here would identify the sabbath with Sunday. That includes Christians.

Sabbath only means saturday if that is the meaning you give it.

the number of people with a deeper knowledge of past meanings is miniscule
I really couldn't care less what you call it, but I would suggest that maybe most people on the street where you live should maybe do the homework. And why is it that some people are so picky about "political correctness" on many theological aspects of their choosing and yet are so willing to ignore that same "correctness" on others?

"Shabbat" = Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown, and that's the real "correctness".
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Neither the theocratic Judah nor the temple in Jerusalem has been restored. Therefore, they will happen in the future. Not the now. The fact that the 10 tribes of Israel are still scattered means that the ingathering will happen in the future. The "nation" of Israel does not include any tribes as it is a geopolitical construct. The current form of Judaism is composed of descendants of (primarily) those tribes you list. Your interpretation of Hosea is delightful but totally irrelevant to the Jewish understanding of Judaism and the law God gave to the Jews. I try my best not to tell Russians what Russian law means. I'm not Russian.

Dear rose,
Hosea is not about Judaism, it is about Judah and Ephraim. The "fortune" of the Judah have been restored and the land is flowing with milk and honey. The transformation of the land began just prior to WWI. Joel 3 doesn't mention the Temple, nor does he mention the man made traditions of the Jews via their Talm
But many Christians realize that this really doesn't make much sense as the Sabbath is the name of a day of the week, so calling Sunday the "Sabbath" is like saying Sunday is Saturday? Instead, many Christians use "the Lord's Day" for Sunday.

But many Christians realize that this really doesn't make much sense as the Sabbath is the name of a day of the week, so calling Sunday the "Sabbath" is like saying Sunday is Saturday? Instead, many Christians use "the Lord's Day" for Sunday.

Dear metis,
Sunday is kept as the "Lord's Day" because the Catholic church changed the 10 commandments to read " Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day" They also deleted the commandment about " You shall not make unto you any graven images". The other commandments they left mostly in place.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Dear metis,
Sunday is kept as the "Lord's Day" because the Catholic church changed the 10 commandments to read " Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day" They also deleted the commandment about " You shall not make unto you any graven images". The other commandments they left mostly in place.

Not true. The RCC well knows that the "Sabbath" is as ours is, but use the term "Lord's Day" to refer to Sunday, and "Lord" in this case refers to Jesus. As far as "graven images", their interpretation is different than ours, so they didn't delete it. As to the other Commandments, they're mostly ignored by the RCC since it is a gentile organization not bound by Jewish Law.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Not true. The RCC well knows that the "Sabbath" is as ours is, but use the term "Lord's Day" to refer to Sunday, and "Lord" in this case refers to Jesus. As far as "graven images", their interpretation is different than ours, so they didn't delete it. As to the other Commandments, they're mostly ignored by the RCC since it is a gentile organization not bound by Jewish Law.

Dear metis,
Being as it is impossible to introduce anything to someone who knows everything, I will just list the Catholic 10 Commandments, and you can chew on them. As for the "Lord's Day", that is an abomination stemming from the dating of Easter, the feast of Astarte, by the Council of Nicaea, convened by the emperor Constantine. It is all pagan in origin, and has nothing to do with Passover, which happens on the 15th of the month of Nissan. The day of rest was formalized by Constantine in the year 321 AD by decree. His church follows the decree of the emperor, who was the head of the pagan church, and whose god was Sol Invictus, the sun god, whose day was the Sunday, the "day of the sun".
Catholic Ten Commandments

I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Remember to keep holy the Lord's day

Honor your father and your mother.

You shall not kill.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

You shall not covet you neighbor's goods.


Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[ Constantine the Great and Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Dear metis,
Being as it is impossible to introduce anything to someone who knows everything, I will just list the Catholic 10 Commandments, and you can chew on them. As for the "Lord's Day", that is an abomination stemming from the dating of Easter, the feast of Astarte, by the Council of Nicaea, convened by the emperor Constantine. It is all pagan in origin, and has nothing to do with Passover, which happens on the 15th of the month of Nissan. The day of rest was formalized by Constantine in the year 321 AD by decree. His church follows the decree of the emperor, who was the head of the pagan church, and whose god was Sol Invictus, the sun god, whose day was the Sunday, the "day of the sun".
Catholic Ten Commandments

I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Remember to keep holy the Lord's day

Honor your father and your mother.

You shall not kill.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

You shall not covet you neighbor's goods.


Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[ Constantine the Great and Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LOL! If you only knew.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Dear metis,
Being as it is impossible to introduce anything to someone who knows everything, I will just list the Catholic 10 Commandments, and you can chew on them. As for the "Lord's Day", that is an abomination stemming from the dating of Easter, the feast of Astarte, by the Council of Nicaea, convened by the emperor Constantine. It is all pagan in origin, and has nothing to do with Passover, which happens on the 15th of the month of Nissan. The day of rest was formalized by Constantine in the year 321 AD by decree. His church follows the decree of the emperor, who was the head of the pagan church, and whose god was Sol Invictus, the sun god, whose day was the Sunday, the "day of the sun".
Catholic Ten Commandments

I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Remember to keep holy the Lord's day

Honor your father and your mother.
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I'm sorry but some of your "facts" are incorrect. There are historical references written in the immediate post Apostolic period of Gentile Christians keeping Sunday (c., 120 AD) as the Lords day. They did this to commemorate the Resurrection. This is the same term John uses in Revelation (c.100 AD). I know you will say he is referring to "the sabbath": However the term is used nowhere else in the NT or OT Further, the term , referring to sunday was in use at the time of the writing of Revelation. As stated, Gentile Christians kept sunday because of Christ, not because of an edict that would come two centuries in the future. The Roman Catholic church did not exist when sunday keeping began
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Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[ Constantine the Great and Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Isn't it arguable that Christians should be keeping Shabbat since they claim to follow the ten commandments? Certainly Jesus and the disciples kept it, seeing as they were Jews. What argument can really be brought forward that Christians shouldn't be keeping it, and do the gospels anywhere explicitly suggest Jesus wouldn't want his followers to?



''Should'' they? Idk...I would not think anything either way. It's up to the person, imo.
 
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Bunyip

pro scapegoat
As an atheist, I still like the idea of a Sabbath. A day of rest, reflection and quiet.
In a busy, stressful world it could be a boon.
 
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