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Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
Last edited:

shmogie

Well-Known Member
The Jews have been keep the Sabbath for a hell of a long time, so I think they would know more about than you, there are many excuses just because they don't follow the true Sabbath day, doesn't worshiping the Sun remind you of something ?.
Ah, who worships the sun ? Gentile Christians began keeping sunday, the day of the resurection, around 100 AD a long time. Yes, the Jews have kept the sabbath for a long time, they know it is a covenant sign between they and God, THEY and God, Jews, not Gentiles
The Jews have been keep the Sabbath for a hell of a long time, so I think they would know more about than you, there are many excuses just because they don't follow the true Sabbath day, doesn't worshiping the Sun remind you of something ?.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
First, Christ fulfilled the law. It has been perfectly kept, by him. The punishment for not keeping the law, has been fulfilled by him for all of us. Second, what law ? ALL of the law contained in the Torah> Not just ten, but ALL the laws, health, diet etc. So, are we lawless ?, of course not. There is the law of Christ. All of the teachings of he and the Apostles. For those who worry about the 10 commandments, they are all reiterated and amplified in the NT, all except one. You may search ceaselessly from Matthew through Revelation and never find any instruction to follow it, number 4.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
shmogle,


re: "The switch from the Gregorian to the Julian calendar, Changing of days when the international dateline was adopted."



I should have been more specific. Assuming that the Messiah was keeping the correct Sabbath, what documentation do you have to show that the 7 day weekly cycle observed in Jerusalem by the Messiah has been interrupted sometime between then and now?
I believe it is highly likely that in Israel and the middle east in general, the weekly rotation is the same, however, during the diaspora, the Romans fiddled with an eight day week, the muslims after the Romans had their own calendar. Essentially, we have Jewish tradition to tell us the weekly rotation is the same. Tradition is not rock solid evidence, but I am inclined to believe it
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
shmogle,


re: "Sorry, I forgot to respond to your her question...Rom, 14,5-6, NKJV"



The subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat. Paul is writing about asceticism. Some in the church at Rome believed Christians should eat only vegetables. Paul calls these people "weak in the faith" (verses 1-2). The stronger in faith know they could also eat meat. Nothing in God's law prein he quoted verses is talking about days, not vegetablesscribes vegetarianism. The stronger in faith knew they were free from non-biblical asceticism. A part of the controversy that had sprung up between the weak and the strong Christians was the esteeming of days. In Rome some peopleons of foodons of foo had the pagan idea that on certain days certain foods should or should not be eaten. In this whole chapter Paul was just showing that others should not be offended, particularly weak members who have not yet learned the truth about the proper Christian diet and that they should not be judged by the stronger in the faith. This passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath.
Sorry, but you simply are wrong. As a former SDA I can tell you that it is a religion of assumptions. Because one strongly believes A one must assume that C doesn't say what it says, but says something else in support of the A assumption. If you are not an SDA, you are using the same tactic. Paul, in the quoted verses, is not talking about vegetables but days, the sabbath is a day, EVERY day includes the sabbath, No ambiguity here, clear as a bell. You cannot assume a day is a turnip to support a preconceived notion.
"Therefore, let no man pass judgement on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival, or a new moon, or a sabbath" Col. 2 16 ESV
Now, because you assume that the sabbath is binding on all Christians, you must assume that this verse doesn't say what it says. You must tell me that this isn't the weekly sabbath, but some other kind of sabbath. I read it for what it says, you have no right to judge me about any and all sabbaths. If it meant something else, he would have said so
 

Awoon

Well-Known Member
Isn't it arguable that Christians should be keeping Shabbat since they claim to follow the ten commandments? Certainly Jesus and the disciples kept it, seeing as they were Jews. What argument can really be brought forward that Christians shouldn't be keeping it, and do the gospels anywhere explicitly suggest Jesus wouldn't want his followers to?

The sabboth is simply getting one day off work a week to do what one wants to do. Politics made the day a burden to people, when it was really the ending of slavery.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
The question of the switch from Gregorian to Julian s a neat one, but I found the following claim, "In the Gregorian calendar reform of 1582, Thursday, October 4 was followed by Friday (not Monday), October 15" which would indicate that the calendar shift affected dates, not days and the 7 day-week cycle was unaffected.

1582 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The switch took place over time, with at least 3 changes. if you google "effects of Julian to Gregorian calendar change" you will find a number of sites with different views, Many believe the weekly rotation was interrupted, There is no firm agreement on what actually happened.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
The switch took place over time, with at least 3 changes. if you google "effects of Julian to Gregorian calendar change" you will find a number of sites with different views, Many believe the weekly rotation was interrupted, There is no firm agreement on what actually happened.
I have yet to find a site that says that the weekly rotation was affected. This site The Julian and Gregorian Calendars confirms the day cycle. Did you have another site in mind?
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
First, Christ fulfilled the law. It has been perfectly kept, by him. The punishment for not keeping the law, has been fulfilled by him for all of us. Second, what law ? ALL of the law contained in the Torah> Not just ten, but ALL the laws, health, diet etc. So, are we lawless ?, of course not. There is the law of Christ. All of the teachings of he and the Apostles. For those who worry about the 10 commandments, they are all reiterated and amplified in the NT, all except one. You may search ceaselessly from Matthew through Revelation and never find any instruction to follow it, number 4.

Thankyou for your response.

Can you point to the part of the bible that backs up your claim.

Also can you explain how fulfilling the law (how does one fulfill a set of laws?) means they no longer apply.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why would God give the Law, punish those who did not obey it, and then supposedly rescind the Law? If the Law was that important to give us in the first place, then did He make a colossal mistake in doing so? And why would it say in the scriptures that the Law is "forever" and "perpetual"? Is He prone to lying?
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Why would God give the Law, punish those who did not obey it, and then supposedly rescind the Law? If the Law was that important to give us in the first place, then did He make a colossal mistake in doing so? And why would it say in the scriptures that the Law is "forever" and "perpetual"? Is He prone to lying?

First. lets address "the law" , as applies to the Jews. Jews do not keep the law as it was originally given in the Torah. The Talmudic tradition of the law, developed in the first century AD, eliminated and changed many parts of the law. As an example, I know of no Jewish communities that sacrifice animals,or Jews that segregate menstruating women during their time. So, Judaism itself has changed the law.
As for Christians , As I have said elsewhere, quoting Christ, he has fulfilled the law. What did he mean ? One of the definitions of fulfill is to "satisfy". If I murder someone, the law identifies my crime and demands my capture. The law demands I have a trial, when convicted, the law demands my punishment, when I am executed, the law is fulfilled, satisfied. It is impossible for the law to have any more effect on me. For me, the law ceases to exist.
Now then, we all are guilty of heinous crimes before the law of the Torah. We all deserve death for these crimes. Christ, in our place, lived the law perfectly totally without sin, through him we have and will be sinless before the law. The punishment for those crimes that we deserve before the law, he received, his death, was ours. All the demands of the law are totally fulfilled. In his death, we are dead to the law, it can have no further authority over us. The law still exists, it is forever, and those who put themselves under it, rejecting Christ's substitute live and death, must attempt to follow it, and receive it's punishments. For the Christian, there is a new law, as Paul said, "he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law " To paraphrase Martin Luther, " in Christ, it is as if I lived his life, breathed his breath, lived his life, suffered his pain, experienced his crucifixion, died his death, and was raised with him from the dead".
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The switch from the Gregorian to the Julian calendar, Changing of days when the international dateline was adopted. The Phillipines and other pacific nations ha two saturdays in a row, the dateline itself, an arbitrary, man made line. You could cross and recross it and never have a sabbath, for months.
To be honest, I've never given this much thought. I wonder how an Orthodox Jew might handle this.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The question of the switch from Gregorian to Julian s a neat one, but I found the following claim, "In the Gregorian calendar reform of 1582, Thursday, October 4 was followed by Friday (not Monday), October 15" which would indicate that the calendar shift affected dates, not days and the 7 day-week cycle was unaffected.
True, but the dateline phenomenon remains intriguing.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Thankyou for your response.

Can you point to the part of the bible that backs up your claim.

Also can you explain how fulfilling the law (how does one fulfill a set of laws?) means they no longer apply.

Please see response in this thread
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
I have yet to find a site that says that the weekly rotation was affected. This site The Julian and Gregorian Calendars confirms the day cycle. Did you have another site in mind?
PLKease see worldslastchance.com, viewzone.com, judaismvschristianiy.com. There are many parts of the world where the weekly day cycle was changed, including Alaska, American Samoa, and Hawaii., Undisputed fact.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
See worldslastchance.com, viuewzone.com, judaismvschristianity.com
See Rule 8:

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
The forums are not to be used for converting others to your own faith, against any faith, or recruiting people to join one's party, institution, or cause. This includes placing links or copied material from elsewhere intended for this purpose. Posts of this nature will be edited or removed and are subject to moderation.​
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
See Rule 8:

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
The forums are not to be used for converting others to your own faith, against any faith, or recruiting people to join one's party, institution, or cause. This includes placing links or copied material from elsewhere intended for this purpose. Posts of this nature will be edited or removed and are subject to moderation.​
I would suggest that before you chastise, you look at the links in relation to the discussion. They have nothing to do with my religious beliefs, nor am I attempting to proselytize anyone to anything., The issue is whether the weekly rotation of days has been changed. These sites offer EVIDENCE related to that question. I would suggest that the reader is capable of considering that evidence apart from any chance material related to a belief system., Methinks the gentleman protesteth too much " BTW, I was asked specifically for these sites
 
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