Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

[WALL]

Christians don't keep Law. Christians keep faith instead.

Hi Hawk

GALATIANS 3[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[13] CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH.

DEUT.11 [26] Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;[27] A BLESSING, IF YE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH I COMMAND YOU THIS DAY:[28] AND A CURSE, IF YE WILL NOT OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known

The “many” will tell you the law itself is the curse. Just read Deut.11 to know the truth. Christ did not come to destroy the law but came to redeem us from the curse of the law that we might recieve the promise of the spirit through FAITH. BUT...

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Faith and the commandments. “Many” will say you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14

EPHES. 2 [7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [8] For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Theres no doubt that only the grace of God will save you. Its a gift we do not deserve. We are ALL as filthy rags. We ALL have come up short. But to whom will this gift be given? According to the scriptures it will given to those who are observing to keep Gods 10 commandments. It will not be given to david koresh (a believer). It will not be given to jim jones (a believer). It will not be given to adolph hitler (a believer). It will not be given to the devil (a believer).

JAMES 2 [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

 

[Hawkins]

Hi Hawk

GALATIANS 3[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[13] CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH.

DEUT.11 [26] Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;[27] A BLESSING, IF YE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH I COMMAND YOU THIS DAY:[28] AND A CURSE, IF YE WILL NOT OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known

The “many” will tell you the law itself is the curse. Just read Deut.11 to know the truth. Christ did not come to destroy the law but came to redeem us from the curse of the law that we might recieve the promise of the spirit through FAITH. BUT...

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Faith and the commandments. “Many” will say you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14

EPHES. 2 [7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [8] For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Theres no doubt that only the grace of God will save you. Its a gift we do not deserve. We are ALL as filthy rags. We ALL have come up short. But to whom will this gift be given? According to the scriptures it will given to those who are observing to keep Gods 10 commandments. It will not be given to david koresh (a believer). It will not be given to jim jones (a believer). It will not be given to adolph hitler (a believer). It will not be given to the devil (a believer).

JAMES 2 [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

Christ's teaching about the commandments (where's the Sabbath anyway?)

Matthew 22:36-39 (NIV)
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?
Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Mark 10:19 (NIV)
You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.


I'd rather show you the big picture.

 

[WALL]

That's not about changing the Sabbath day. Christians doesn't need to keep the Law (including Sabbath), we follow Christ's teaching instead.

Do you follow Christ?

LUKE 4 [14] And JESUS returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, AS HIS CUSTOM WAS, he WENT INTO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY, and stood up for to read.

 

[WALL]

Christ's teaching about the commandments (where's the Sabbath anyway?)

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Just go read the 4th

 

[Hawkins]

Do you follow Christ?

LUKE 4 [14] And JESUS returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, AS HIS CUSTOM WAS, he WENT INTO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY, and stood up for to read.

I thus attend Sunday services. Jesus and His disciples are Jews while I am not.

This is the big picture.

The term law is a complicated stuff. You need to first get the big picture of what law is. I can give you such a big picture. Other Christians may or may not agree with me as there are different schools of explanations (covenant theology, justification, dispensationism...a lot)

The Bible said that sin is the breaking of God's Law. So Law was already in place at the time of Adam. As long as Adam can tell good from evil, he subjects himself to the judgment of God's Law.

The Law here is a rather absolute version of God's Law. God's Law is like a defensive system for heaven. To simply put, if you break the Law you need to leave heaven. For this reason, Adam was driven out of Eden. For the same reason Satan was driven out of heaven. Unlike the angels (they don't have a second chance, possibly because they don't have off-springs), God gives Adam's descendants a second chance.

Noah's story acts as a witness that after leaving God's realm (such as Eden), humans will eventually go far away from God, with the same Law (which Adam broke) in effect. Now without changing the Law (Jesus said Law won't change), then how to save humans who can only go farther and farther away from God? The answer is, God lawfully reserves the right to give out Grace through Jesus Christ to save humans.

Now to deal with humans after Noah, God started to sign off covenants. A covenant basically means, "You don't need to subject to the same Law which Adam broke. You only need to obey a certain scope of specified Law plus God's Grace through Christ then you shall be able to be saved". So ever since Noah, humans are bound to a covenant. They are born with a covenant which gives a chance for them to be saved, through God's Grace. God doesn't need your written acceptance of such a covenant/contract, because without this covenant you won't be able to be saved at all.

It's more like a counter reset for humans since Noah. Still as time goes by, humans keep walking away from God. Now God updated His covenant but to a specific scope of humans, the Jews. God gave a covenant to the Jews which says that (or something to that effect), "You no longer need to obey the Law specified in a previous covenant. I'll give you a new covenant with more Grace given. In this new Covenant you only need to obey the obviously made written Law of Moses then you shall be saved (by the Grace bound to the covenant through Christ).

As time goes by, the Gentiles will be unable to abide by the older covenant while the Jews will fail the Mosaic Law. Now God decided to give humans (both Jews and Gentiles) an even newer covenant. This even newer covenant says that, "Now Law has no effect in you. All you need to do is to believe in Jesus Christ. It's thus a covenant without the Law part but purely God's Grace.

To summarize the situation,

Now all Gentiles are subject to an in-born covenant says that,

"You need to obey God's Law written in your hearts, only then you will be able to be saved by the Grace part of the covenant."

Now all Jews are subject to another in-born covenant which says that,

"You need to obey the Mosaic Law, only then you will be able to be saved by the Grace specified in your covenant."

However, both the Gentiles and Jews have another option which they can choose with consent as an adult,

"There's an optional covenant which you can choose, which is to forget about the Law (that's what Paul meant to say). You can choose an even newer covenant by believing in Jesus Christ only."

You can see that no law is void here. The law will always in effect such that if you fail to choose the newer covenant you will be judged by the still effective law specified in your covenant.

On the other hand, Paul is right because there's no longer the law part in the newer covenant. If you choose it, you are no longer subject to any law.

 

[Hawkins]

The Sabbath isn't omitted for no reason. You can thus count (prophetically) how many Christians in the past 2000 years actually observed the Sabbath!!!


Christ's teaching about the commandments (where's the Sabbath anyway?)

Matthew 22:36-39 (NIV)
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?
Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Mark 10:19 (NIV)
You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.

 

[WALL]

The Sabbath isn't omitted for no reason. You can thus count (prophetically) how many Christians in the past 2000 years actually observed the Sabbath!!!

Not many

LUKE 12 [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.[32] FEAR NOT, LITTLE FLOCK; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

only a little flock will enter the kingdom {saved}

MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

few there be that find it

MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] MANY WILL SAY to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

In footnotes of the KJB, iniquity equals lawlessness. You can find this in 2 THES. 2 verse 7. And the many have come in the name of JESUS saying we need not keep GODS 10 commandments.

LUKE 13 [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: FOR MANY, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Jesus himself tells us that “the many” will not enter the Kingdom. And he explains why. They are workers of iniquity. They do not keep Gods law. HIS 10 commandments.

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, BROKEN THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, AND FEW MEN LEFT.

Well, here we are. The BOTTOM LINE. The DAY OF THE LORD (when Christ returns) and again the Word says that only a few will be saved to the kingdom.

LEV.24 [8] EVERY SABBATH he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by AN EVERLASTING COVENANT.

Is this the everlasting covenant that they broke?

JEREMIAH 16 [19] O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, THE GENTILES shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

In Jeremiah we find what will happen to most gentiles when Jesus returns.

 

[WALL]

Gettin back to Jer 16 profit!

JER.16 [19] O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, THE GENTILES shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely OUR FATHERS HAVE INHERITED LIES, VANITY, AND THINGS WHEREIN THERE IS NO PROFIT.

Day of the Lord. Looks like the “many” Gentiles. No profit! Why no profit?

ISAIAH 48 [17] Thus saith THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I AM THE LORD THY GOD WHICH TEACHETH THEE TO PROFIT, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Whose your Redeemer? Profit! The 10 commandments

 

[WALL]

Christ's teaching about the commandments (where's the Sabbath anyway?).

The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussings there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero

 

[metis]

Yup

How?

 

[metis]

The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussings there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero

But the church ended up making the change, and this was done around the time of the beginning of the 2nd century. No church today fully observes the Sabbath, and this includes the Seventh-Day Adventists.

Circumcision predates the Law,btw, but was mandated still, and it is reinforced by the Law itself. So, if anyone says they're following the Law but are not circumcised if they're male, they're terribly misguided.

And why would we "handle the change" to drop circumcision? If it's an essential part of the Abrahamic Covenant and reinforced by the Mosaiic Law, we're obviously obligated to follow it.

Again, I hate to say it, but you really do not know much at all about this whole area.

 

[WALL]

Christ's teaching about the commandments (where's the Sabbath anyway?)

Seek and ye shall find

HEBREWS 4 [10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Well...Ya see what it says. Now lets see how God rested from His work

HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

Yup. God rested the 7th day. Pretty simple

 

[WALL]

Circumcision predates the Law,btw, but was mandated still, and it is reinforced by the Law itself. So, if anyone says they're following the Law but are not circumcised if they're male, they're terribly misguided.

If it's an essential part of the Abrahamic Covenant and reinforced by the Mosaiic Law, we're obviously obligated to follow it.

Maybe according to your religion

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

Not mine

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[metis]

Maybe according to your religion

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

Not mine

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Wow, just keep moving the goalposts why doncha.

 

[WALL]

Metis, i think you must have misread something in post 509. Not sure

 

[WALL]

Hey Metis, what do the Jews actually do during the new moons?

 

[metis]

Hey Metis, what do the Jews actually do during the new moons?

Here's a link below on this as I have to boogey out because I'm making dinner. Please pray for us.

Rosh Chodesh, the New Moon - My Jewish Learning

 

[WALL]

Yeah, im cookin tonight also. Prayers needed

 

[Hawkins]

Not many

Good. They are however true followers of Christ, or else "Not many" will be saved.

 

[Hawkins]

The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussings there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero

Do you know where all the arguments are coming from. It is not about Law or the New Covenant. It is all above how to pack both the Jews and the Gentiles into a single church.

In order to maximize the number of Christians, you need to respect the custom of the Jews and their practice inside the temples. However, you won't let them proclaim that "the OT can save". That's why Paul spent a lot of words on the controversies. The controversies are actually not about the New Covenant itself but how to make a balance in order to accommodate both the Jews and the Gentiles into one church (this is a reality need).

That's actually why Paul said the we can eat the food for idol worshiping while Peter in Jerusalem said that we shouldn't. It is because the Jews dominate in the Jerusalem area. You don't need to offend them (or their practice) for them to turn away from Christianity. In this case, one may say that Paul is theologically correct while Peter is practically correct.