Should Christians celebrate Christmas

[DrTCH]

It has become blatantly clear to me, over the years, that Christianity was created by the Roman Flavian family to essentially create a peaceful, compliant form of Judaism (and this tradition drew very substantially from "pagan" traditions, such as Mithraism, Attis worship and Serapis worship (pretty much the Xtian prototype), yet the metaphorical (or Gnostic) value of religion (the "Spiritual Path," as distinguished from organized religion) will always have value...AND, I think that Christmas (in the true spiritual sense of the promise of regeneration or renewal...and even enlightenment) is important... and perhaps particularly wonderful for our children....so, yes.

 

[Blastcat]

Who cares? Folk can celebrate whatever they want.

Just who cares.

 

[Marsh]

Others have said it and I will just add my two cents. Most religious traditions have their antecedents in traditions that evolved earlier from yet other traditions. Very little in the world of faith is original. That said, Christians have made these traditions their own, so practice them. If you don't what will you have left? Look at the Jehovah's Witnesses: no Christmas, no Easter Bunny, no Halloween, no birthdays. Really! What fun is that?

 

[kepha31]

The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until the late 3rd Century AD. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

 

[Keithrcpick.]

the Meaning of Christmas has changed, the real birth date of Jesus of Nazareth is not fully known or agreed on, the Date chose is a pagan celebration that was still being celebrated by many early "European" Christians too, since the Roman Catholic Church back then was the leading force... lol so to speak. Anyway!! Today It's The Holiday!! Prezy's!! Alcohol!!.....90% and Church for the birth of Jesus 10%. You Cant Change the Date ... Its Now As Much a Tradition as the easter bunny on "Passover"....lol

 

[bain-druie]

The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until the late 3rd Century AD. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

This is ridiculous. The Druids have been around for 5000 years, and always observed the cycles of the year. So did indigenous faiths worldwide, long before your young faith came along and started appropriating everyone else's traditions while also demanding it be recognized as the only legitimate expression thereof. Anyway, December 25th doesn't matter, no one ever said that was the solstice. Solstice is the 21st-22nd of December, as calculated based on the longest night of the year. Winter Solstice FAR predates Christianity, and I find it hard to believe you're even trying to be taken seriously in claiming otherwise.

 

[SuzyL]

Even though it is a pagan holiday and comes from pagan origins?

You are conflating two things. Yes, many of our traditions do come from pagan rituals - such as the Christmas tree, but that only speaks to the time of year that was chosen to celebrate the holiday. People could have come up with a more accurate time of year to celebrate the day given the clues in the Bible, but the end of the year when it is darkest ended up being the time (for whatever reason). And yes, pagans did celebrate the end of the days getting longer and, apparently, early church leaders chose to borrow some of the festivities from them. But I know of NO Christians who think of pagan things when the put up Christmas trees. Most Christians go to church, sing Christmas hymns, put out a nativity scene as well. So, yes, Christians should unabashedly celebrate the birth of the Lord...and the day that we do that has traditionally been December 25. Since it is arbitrary...why shouldn't it be then? Now if you want to talk about pagan customs being mixed up with Christian celebrations...Easter is much more messed up with bunnies and eggs left over from pagan fertility stuff!

 

[Demonslayer]

But I know of NO Christians who think of pagan things when the put up Christmas trees.

I think that's kind of the point. Most Christians don't understand the real origins of Christmas traditions.

 

[viole]

Er, the Winter Solstice marks the point when the days begin to get longer than the nights. It's a rebirth of the Sun. That's how the symbolism can tie into Christian imagery. However, Christians don't celebrate it on the exact day of the Solstice. Eastern Christians celebrate it on the 6th of January, for example.

Jesus is viewed as the Light of God coming into a world of darkness. So it all ties together nicely.

That could explain why Christianity did not develop on the southern emisphere.

Ciao

- viole

 

[NathanShepard8888]

It seems fairly obvious to me that the OP is misleading. It's phrased as a question, but there is clearly no question in Nathan's mind; every point he makes on this thread is focused on why he thinks christians should NOT celebrate christmas, and it's all based on biblically sanctioned bigotry against pagans.

He's not really asking a question with any desire for input, he simply wants a platform for his hate speech, as I perceive it.

Frankly, I don't care who celebrates what or why or how, so long as people like Nathan aren't permitted to ruin everyone else's joy. Christians have historically stolen pagan holidays, changed the names and pertinent facts, then persecuted pagans who continued to celebrate their original holiday. They don't have an original idea in their heads, so far as I can see; the entire gospel story is a repetition of far more ancient pagan myths. That's fine, they're welcome to it, but they need to stop this exclusivist narcissism theynherit from their deity.

Iaddition, may I point out as was mentioned above, celebrating the winter solstice is not particularly pagan or any other faith. It is a seasonal observation of the longest night followed by the return of the light as the days begin to lengthen; no more, no less in its essence. You embellish it however you like, and adapt your customs and beliefs to it. Nature belongs to us all, and it's a beautiful thing to see the diverse symbolisms and myths that emerge in the creativity of human culture when it's allowed freedom rather than being squashed by fear of persecution. I hate to see genuine joyful Christians bullied by the ones who can't stand to see anyone enjoying e.

Where did I give a hate speech? I simply stated Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas because it originates from pagan worship. God remembers the pagan rituals and blood sacrifices on these days. We need to worship The Most High how he wants to be worshiped. Not how we want to worship Him.

 

[bain-druie]

Where did I give a hate speech? I simply stated Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas because it originates from pagan worship. God remembers the pagan rituals and blood sacrifices on these days. We need to worship The Most High how he wants to be worshiped. Not how we want to worship Him.

Right, you STATED. You phrased the OP as a question, when what you really wanted was to assert the position of anti-pagan bigotry that you already hold.

And excuse me, *you* may need to worship that god you call most high, but I certainly don't. I could not care less about his preferences for worship, since for me it's a non-issue, as one of the pagans you and your ilk so despise while you appropriate our traditions, our myths, our symbols, and our everything.

There are beautiful Christians who celebrate Christmas with innocent joy and devotion to Christ; I object to your kind because you seek to destroy their innocence and their joy. You may celebrate or not as you wish, but stop persecuting those who do celebrate in a genuine desire to honor Christ. In other words, mind your own business, and let them mind theirs.

 

[Ingledsva]

The only God is the Greatest and Most High. It wasn't't the pope who changed the rules, it was Roman Emperor Constantine. He combined Mithraism and Christianity to get the Christmas and Easter we have today.

The people here have pretty much called it correctly.

It all comes from the Pagan.

It doesn't matter if a pope changed the date to a Pagan one, as it is all Pagan anyway.

The Hebrew were originally Pagan, with a Goddess, Sacred Sex, Ritual sacrifice of the First Son, baptism, etc., And they brought a lot of this into their new religion.

The Bible tells us they kept bringing their Pagan past back into the Temple, - over and over, - and there are verses lamenting that they were better off under their Old Religion.

So just enjoy your Christian version of a Pagan Winter Solstice Holiday.

*

 

[Marsh]

the Meaning of Christmas has changed, the real birth date of Jesus of Nazareth is not fully known or agreed on, the Date chose is a pagan celebration that was still being celebrated by many early "European" Christians too, since the Roman Catholic Church back then was the leading force... lol so to speak. Anyway!! Today It's The Holiday!! Prezy's!! Alcohol!!.....90% and Church for the birth of Jesus 10%. You Cant Change the Date ... Its Now As Much a Tradition as the easter bunny on "Passover"....lol

The actual birthday of Jesus is simply unknown. The important point is that Christians have made this celebration their own. I've read that the Romans gave presents themselves at the time of Saturnalia, and you can be sure they were drinking, so this is an old tradition, but Santa appears to be Christian. The version I've heard is that during the Middle Ages in France a group of nuns took it upon themselves one year give a group of orphan children, in their care, gifts with the pleasant fiction attached that they'd been brought by Saint Nicholas, the patron saint of children. The tradition was nurtured and in time it spread. Now we have Santa. If this account is true then the tradition of Santa Claus is Christian. So, to the Christians here I say celebrate Christmas. It belongs to you.

 

[Marsh]

Where did I give a hate speech? I simply stated Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas because it originates from pagan worship. God remembers the pagan rituals and blood sacrifices on these days. We need to worship The Most High how he wants to be worshiped. Not how we want to worship Him.

The point so many have made, and that I agree with, is that all traditions have their antecedents in earlier traditions. Even the practices of preferred worship you imagine, I'd bet, originated with something else. Besides, think about it, would an all-powerful being really care about the way a rite was conducted? Seems very petty for an all-powerful deity, don't you think?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Even though it is a pagan holiday and comes from pagan origins?

There is less certainty about that than you're displaying here.
Both Dec 25 and Jan 6 were recorded as dates of celebration prior to Constantine's time, but (probably due to the more exhaustive recording, etc) it is during his reign that Dec 25 is definitively identified for the first time. It wasn't the 'official' date of Christmas until the Pope ratified it, some time later though,

Everything is quite hazy, in terms of origin, but there is reason to believe that pre-existing pagan traditions were introduced or overlayed on Christmas after it's inception, rather than it being an extension of pagan celebrations with a Christian overlay. I'd hesitate to be definitive on ANY particular origin story, to be honest.

 

[psychoslice]

There is nowhere in the bible that's says that we should keep Christmas what so ever, so its up to each individual.

 

[InChrist]

According to the scriptures this is a fallen world so the reality is that anything and everything is and has been paganized or has origins in paganism. Wedding rings, cakes, and the US dollar bills we spend everyday are only a few things that have pagan connections or symbolism. Christians who know the Lord Jesus Christ and live in His grace celebrate with joy and thanksgiving. The exact date of His birth may not be specifically mentioned in the Bible, but His miraculous birth and its tremendous significance certainly is highlighted and is joyously heralded by the angelic hosts. It is so disheartening every year to hear those who don't know the grace and freedom of Jesus condemn the celebration of His birth attempting to lay guilt and steal the joy of those who celebrate such an wonderful gift of God.

https://bible.org/article/should-christians-celebrate-christmas

 

[lewisnotmiller]

According to the scriptures this is a fallen world so the reality is that anything and everything is and has been paganized or has origins in paganism. Wedding rings, cakes, and the US dollar bills we spend everyday are only a few things that have pagan connections or symbolism. Christians who know the Lord Jesus Christ and live in His grace celebrate with joy and thanksgiving. The exact date of His birth may not be specifically mentioned in the Bible, but His miraculous birth and its tremendous significance certainly is highlighted and is joyously heralded by the angelic hosts. It is so disheartening every year to hear those who don't know the grace and freedom of Jesus condemn the celebration of His birth attempting to lay guilt and steal the joy of those who celebrate such an wonderful gift of God.

https://bible.org/article/should-christians-celebrate-christmas

I actually agree with much of your post, and found the linked article pretty well done.
Just a small note though...its quite commonly Christians who raise questions as to Christmas' veracity, as it was in both the OP and in the example in your linked article.

No biggie really, your points stand regardless, but there is no grand attempt by non-Christians to deny Christmas or anything.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

There is nowhere in the bible that's says that we should keep Christmas what so ever, so its up to each individual.

Hi,

I don’t know about you, year by year, I observe the paradoxes of Christmas. Even as a child, I was rather confused by what appears to be the meaning of Christmas.

On one hand there was the seriousness of the babe in a manger, as compared to a carnival mentality from a broader population.

There was the poverty of the stable compared to the selfishness of lavish gift giving.

The quietness of Bethlehem compared to the throng of the shopping mall.

The seriousness of the incarnation compared with the silliness of Christmas parties.

The star of heaven compared alongside with the brilliance of Christmas lights.

The cheap plastic toys given at Christmas compared with the true gift of the wise men.

Angels are confused with flying reindeer.

An oxen and a donkey confused with a flying red nosed reindeer of all things.

The filth of the stable confused with the whiteness of pure snow.

Mary and Joseph confused with North Pole elves.

Then last but not least, what in the world has a jolly man in red, Santa Claus got to do with a little baby in a manger.

Santa Claus seems to me to take on a god like character. He flies through the air with his flying reindeer. He seems to know all things. For instance, he knows when you have been naughty.

My friends it is quite hard to look through this to see the reality of Christmas. No wonder that many children are totally confused.

The Scriptures describe the voluntary descending onto this earth of Christ, to die for men, to rescue them and to pave the way of reconciliation to them and to return to Heaven in majesty and glory and power.

The main point I want to make is that whatever Godly celebrations there are, sinful man will try create a god in his own image. For instance sinful man has created Santa Claus, who I call the god of materialism, or to replace the event of Easter with an egg laying bunny. Man hates God and does not want Him running their lives. If you want to celebrate Christmas, go ahead. There is no command to celebrate it. I hope this will stimulate discussion.

Christ’s prophet, Certainty for eternity

 

[Ingledsva]

Hi,

I don’t know about you, year by year, I observe the paradoxes of Christmas. Even as a child, I was rather confused by what appears to be the meaning of Christmas.

On one hand there was the seriousness of the babe in a manger, as compared to a carnival mentality from a broader population.

There was the poverty of the stable compared to the selfishness of lavish gift giving.

The quietness of Bethlehem compared to the throng of the shopping mall.

The seriousness of the incarnation compared with the silliness of Christmas parties.

The star of heaven compared alongside with the brilliance of Christmas lights.

The cheap plastic toys given at Christmas compared with the true gift of the wise men.

Angels are confused with flying reindeer.

An oxen and a donkey confused with a flying red nosed reindeer of all things.

The filth of the stable confused with the whiteness of pure snow.

Mary and Joseph confused with North Pole elves.

Then last but not least, what in the world has a jolly man in red, Santa Claus got to do with a little baby in a manger.

Santa Claus seems to me to take on a god like character. He flies through the air with his flying reindeer. He seems to know all things. For instance, he knows when you have been naughty.

My friends it is quite hard to look through this to see the reality of Christmas. No wonder that many children are totally confused.

The Scriptures describe the voluntary descending onto this earth of Christ, to die for men, to rescue them and to pave the way of reconciliation to them and to return to Heaven in majesty and glory and power.

The main point I want to make is that whatever Godly celebrations there are, sinful man will try create a god in his own image. For instance sinful man has created Santa Claus, who I call the god of materialism, or to replace the event of Easter with an egg laying bunny. Man hates God and does not want Him running their lives. If you want to celebrate Christmas, go ahead. There is no command to celebrate it. I hope this will stimulate discussion.

Christ’s prophet, Certainty for eternity

Santa and his reindeer fly because they take Amanita Muscaria (fly agaric.)

This was well known in our past. Just look at old Christmas cards and decorations. They have Amanita mushrooms all over them.

Then look up my ancestors the Swedish Sami, reindeer, and Amanita Muscaria.

You will find related Scandinavian and Nordic religion and myth. Also legends, reindeer, sleds, bright clothes, and even the turned up toes of the boots on the little elves=children.