V lad i mir
Member
all abrahamic religions is a lie, made up to manipulate the mass of people.
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Should Christians celebrate Christmas
- Thread starter NathanShepard8888
- Start date
NathanShepard8888
Member
God knows the heart.
The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?
Jeremiah 17:10
arthra
Baha'i
Not all Christians have observed Christmas... historically some protestant groups did not celebrate Christmas . In the early colonial period it was against the law to celebrate Christmas:
In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated
in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.
http://www.thehistoryofchristmas.com/ch/in_america.htm
But in my view I'm not a Christian and whatever Christians want to do is their business...
Since my in-laws are still Christians we do go to their home and they have a tree and presents and we participate with them... When we Baha'is observe Ayyam-i-Ha in February...my in-laws come to my house and we all have Ayyam-i-Ha.. A Baha'i season of gift exchanging and socializing...
In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.
http://www.thehistoryofchristmas.com/ch/in_america.htm
But in my view I'm not a Christian and whatever Christians want to do is their business...
Since my in-laws are still Christians we do go to their home and they have a tree and presents and we participate with them... When we Baha'is observe Ayyam-i-Ha in February...my in-laws come to my house and we all have Ayyam-i-Ha.. A Baha'i season of gift exchanging and socializing...
Probably because of the Sun symbolism, as Christ is the Light of the World. Makes it more potent on a psychological level.
roger1440
I do stuff
Let me understand this. Christmas is a Pagan holiday yet not one church on the entire planet mentions that in its creed or confession of faith. Did I leave anything out?
Draka
Wonder Woman
Jehovah's Witnesses recognize it as Pagan, along with Easter. Just because most other churches don't admit it doesn't mean that the holiday doesn't have its roots in older Pagan holidays. It may just mean they don't want to admit it. They have been celebrating those holidays as is for so long it would be difficult to change them now wouldn't it? It would mean an admitting of Pagan practices within the Christian faith. Something that doesn't seem to be really looked well upon.
Scott C.
Just one guy
I believe that God has explained how he wants to be worshiped. When we understand his wishes, we should follow them - obedience matters a lot. And when we follow them, we should do so from the heart with real intent. On the other hand, God does not hold ignorance against us, especially when our hearts are right. I'd say that to ignorantly worship God with good intentions is better than to worship with precision, but without the right intent.
Scott C.
Just one guy
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.
Scott C.
Just one guy
I believe that clearly Christmas is not ordained or God as a commanded form of worship. There's nothing in the Bible that sets the celebration of the birth of Christ as a sacrament or holy day, much less the tradition of the tree and gifts, etc. The tradition developed over the years. It may very well have been influenced by non-Christian traditions from the beginning. If a Christian has no desire to participate in the Christmas tradition, I would not see that as a "non-Christian" attitude. However, regardless of it's origins, I love the Christmas tradition and believe that it's a wonderful way to remember the birth of Christ and to celebrate Christianity. I believe that God is pleased when we celebrate the holiday in a way that remembers and reverences his Son.
roger1440
I do stuff
If I look out my window and notice the really cool color scheme my pagan neighbor painted his home and then painted my home using the same color scheme, is my home now using a pagan color scheme?
Draka
Wonder Woman
No, but if your neighbor painted pentacles, ankhs, triquetras and more Pagan symbols upon their house and you did the same you would be using Pagan designs upon your home. Much of the traditions of Christmas and Easter are rooted in older Pagan holidays. Just historical fact. Some Christian faiths recognize this, some choose not to. Like I said, formally admitting something is of Pagan origins is a sticky thing for most denominations as Christians aren't technically supposed to partake in the traditions and practices of Pagans. So, it's better, at this point, to just go with it and ignore the origins. Christians have been celebrating like they have for so long anyway, what would be the point of changing now?
roger1440
I do stuff
The symbols could only be pagan if that was my intent. Many cultures use the same symbols but with different symbolism. First symbol that comes to my mind is the hexagram, a six pointed star.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagram
Draka
Wonder Woman
Is a crucifix only a Christian symbol if I intend it to be?
If you take several known Pagan symbols and use them together then how are they not Pagan symbols anymore? Likewise, you take several Pagan traditions and practices and use them all together to celebrate a holiday in much the exact same way it was already celebrated by Pagans...how can you say those things are no longer of Pagan origin? The tree, wreath, mistletoe, Yule log, and more all come from pre-existing Pagan holidays. As well as decorated eggs, egg hunts, bunnies and so on. Those things have nothing to do with Christianity. Nothing to do with Christ. Yet they are now part of the celebrations for Christianity. That is what was being pointed out. Now, I really have no problem with however Christians want to celebrate their holy days, but to flat out deny the actual origins of their traditions...while I can see why...still seems silly to me.
roger1440
I do stuff
Example: The days of the week in English. Another example: Most of our months in English. Another example: the decimal system. Want more?
idea
Question Everything
Christians enjoy both sharing their ideas with others, and listening to and learning about the ideas of others.
I see nothing wrong with embracing and incorporating something that you find and like into your belief system, do you?
If you meet someone from a new culture, and you would like to get to know them better, what do you do? You share food with one another, you share stories and traditions with one another, you find things that are common and build a foundation on that. Christianity is about love, unity - and this means reaching out to others. Our holidays are a testament of our willingness to reach out, listen to, and embrace others.
I see nothing wrong with embracing and incorporating something that you find and like into your belief system, do you?
If you meet someone from a new culture, and you would like to get to know them better, what do you do? You share food with one another, you share stories and traditions with one another, you find things that are common and build a foundation on that. Christianity is about love, unity - and this means reaching out to others. Our holidays are a testament of our willingness to reach out, listen to, and embrace others.
Altfish
Veteran Member
If it's to do with the sun, then Christians have got it wrong for the whole of the northern hemisphere. The sun hardly gets out in December
Er, the Winter Solstice marks the point when the days begin to get longer than the nights. It's a rebirth of the Sun. That's how the symbolism can tie into Christian imagery. However, Christians don't celebrate it on the exact day of the Solstice. Eastern Christians celebrate it on the 6th of January, for example.
Jesus is viewed as the Light of God coming into a world of darkness. So it all ties together nicely.
bain-druie
Tree-Hugger!
It seems fairly obvious to me that the OP is misleading. It's phrased as a question, but there is clearly no question in Nathan's mind; every point he makes on this thread is focused on why he thinks christians should NOT celebrate christmas, and it's all based on biblically sanctioned bigotry against pagans.
He's not really asking a question with any desire for input, he simply wants a platform for his hate speech, as I perceive it.
Frankly, I don't care who celebrates what or why or how, so long as people like Nathan aren't permitted to ruin everyone else's joy. Christians have historically stolen pagan holidays, changed the names and pertinent facts, then persecuted pagans who continued to celebrate their original holiday. They don't have an original idea in their heads, so far as I can see; the entire gospel story is a repetition of far more ancient pagan myths. That's fine, they're welcome to it, but they need to stop this exclusivist narcissism they inherit from their deity.
In addition, may I point out as was mentioned above, celebrating the winter solstice is not particularly pagan or any other faith. It is a seasonal observation of the longest night followed by the return of the light as the days begin to lengthen; no more, no less in its essence. You embellish it however you like, and adapt your customs and beliefs to it. Nature belongs to us all, and it's a beautiful thing to see the diverse symbolisms and myths that emerge in the creativity of human culture when it's allowed freedom rather than being squashed by fear of persecution. I hate to see genuine joyful Christians bullied by the ones who can't stand to see anyone enjoying themselves.
He's not really asking a question with any desire for input, he simply wants a platform for his hate speech, as I perceive it.
Frankly, I don't care who celebrates what or why or how, so long as people like Nathan aren't permitted to ruin everyone else's joy. Christians have historically stolen pagan holidays, changed the names and pertinent facts, then persecuted pagans who continued to celebrate their original holiday. They don't have an original idea in their heads, so far as I can see; the entire gospel story is a repetition of far more ancient pagan myths. That's fine, they're welcome to it, but they need to stop this exclusivist narcissism they inherit from their deity.
In addition, may I point out as was mentioned above, celebrating the winter solstice is not particularly pagan or any other faith. It is a seasonal observation of the longest night followed by the return of the light as the days begin to lengthen; no more, no less in its essence. You embellish it however you like, and adapt your customs and beliefs to it. Nature belongs to us all, and it's a beautiful thing to see the diverse symbolisms and myths that emerge in the creativity of human culture when it's allowed freedom rather than being squashed by fear of persecution. I hate to see genuine joyful Christians bullied by the ones who can't stand to see anyone enjoying themselves.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Great theory, but ask any Christian why they celebrate Xmas Day and they will say JC's birthday, none will mention the sun.
Well, not all are into symbolism like I am. I'm not your average Christian (whatever your "average Christian" is supposed to be in the first place.