Should Prostitution be legal?

[Shad]

Can you demonstrate this actually happening in places in the US where prostitution is legal, such as Nevada?

Look up criminal statics for the state of Nevada and their own press releases.

http://gsd.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/gsdnvgov/content/About/UCR/2015 Crime In Nevada.pdf
Human Trafficking - Home
http://ag.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/agnvgov/Content/Human_Trafficking/2017_02_03_13_38_26.pdf

 

[columbus]

Threat to public health, avoidance of taxation, abuse of employers, addiction to substances, pressure of poverty are issues which question the legality of this profession.

These are the sort of reasons I think prostitution itself shouldn't be illegal, much as I disapprove of the concept of buying and selling sex.
Under many, probably most, circumstances it just isn't very different from a guy buying a woman a gift or expensive night out, hoping and expecting to get laid. Two competent adults agreeing to a romp for a pre-established payment isn't that different. The problems that have real victims will thrive in the secrecy.
The human trafficking and drugs and such will be easier to detect and stop if the people who would know, the pros and their johns, feel free to say what they know to the cops.
Tom

 

[Shad]

You've provided no evidence that the Dutch model is comparable to what we'd have, or even that it's all that bad over there.

Compare to the Nevada model?

You can read about the Dutch model here

http://www.minbuza.nl/binaries/cont...sues/faq-prostitutie-pdf--engels.pdf-2012.pdf

I doubt employers fear abuse.

Sorry. Missed that one. Abuse by the employer.

If it were legal, many of the problems you cite could be addressed....
- Taxing wages
- Licensing employers
- Health standards
- Employment would fight poverty

I want a model before making something is made legal. That is just silly and horrible planning.

Addiction is a separate issue, affecting far more people than sex workers.

It is relevant as are forced in this profession to their addiction.

You might look into NV, where it's legal.

Already did

That would be more comparable than Holland.

Already did

It's already a business.

I mean a legal business which has certain laws.

I'd prefer that be a legal one with appropriate regulation.

Regulations which are WIP after the fact..

 

[Shad]

These are the sort of reasons I think prostitution itself shouldn't be illegal, much as I disapprove of the concept of buying and selling sex.
Under many, probably most, circumstances it just isn't very different from a guy buying a woman a gift or expensive night out, hoping and expecting to get laid. Two competent adults agreeing to a romp for a pre-established payment isn't that different. The problems that have real victims will thrive in the secrecy.

No as your example is not a contract in which goods are exchanged for a service. It is a hope or desperation not a contract.

The human trafficking and drugs and such will be easier to detect and stop if the people who would know, the pros and their johns, feel free to say what they know to the cops.
Tom

Yet this does not bare out in statistics for NV nor Holland.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Look up criminal statics for the state of Nevada and their own press releases.

http://gsd.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/gsdnvgov/content/About/UCR/2015 Crime In Nevada.pdf
Human Trafficking - Home
http://ag.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/agnvgov/Content/Human_Trafficking/2017_02_03_13_38_26.pdf

What does this tell me about legal prostitution though? Human trafficking exists in all states in the US. Nevada isn't even the worst by a good margin, either.

 

[Shad]

What does this tell me about legal prostitution though? Human trafficking exists in all states in the US. Nevada isn't even the worst by a good margin, either.

That the legality of it does not result in remedy of the abuses nor the causes which force people into this profession.

 

[Revoltingest]

Compare to the Nevada model?
You can read about the Dutch model here
http://www.minbuza.nl/binaries/cont...sues/faq-prostitutie-pdf--engels.pdf-2012.pdf

A problem with that country is that there's no before & after comparison, since it was never illegal.
If you want to support an argument against legalization using info from that report, it would be
best to extract the salient portions. I didn't notice any problems in a brief perusal.

Sorry. Missed that one. Abuse by the employer.

How are they subject to employer abuse any more than any other legal industry?
As things are here now, abuse by the employer (the pimp) is unregulated.

I want a model before making something is made legal. That is just silly and horrible planning.

We're not enacting legislation here.....just discussing the idea.
Of course, were it to be legalized, there would be much work to do.
I'm up for it if Trump would hire me.

It is relevant as are forced in this profession to their addiction.

This statement isn't clear.

Already did

But that lengthy document is TLTR.
If something withing it supports your argument, tis best to quote it.

I mean a legal business which has certain laws.

As it should be.

Regulations which are WIP after the fact..

"WIP"?
If you mean a work in progress, this is true of all business regulation.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes. However by making it legal you enable people to legally operate by importing sex workers under dubious circumstances. All the problems with the immigration system come to bare on this issue by making a dubious "profession" legal.

Not if it required licencing and regulation to legally operate.

 

[Shad]

Not if it required licencing and regulation to legally operate.

This does not prevent people from presenting false documents. Or have you missed the last 2 decades regarding illegal immigration?

 

[Shad]

A problem with that country is that there's no before & after comparison, since it was never illegal.
If you want to support an argument against legalization using info from that report, it would be
best to extract the salient portions. I didn't notice any problems in a brief perusal.

I used NV as it has a before and after comparison.

How are they subject to employer abuse any more than any other legal industry?
As things are here now, abuse by the employer (the pimp) is unregulated.

If this profession becomes a legal business pimps can make the transition to "representatives" continuing an already abusive relationship.

We're not enacting legislation here.....just discussing the idea.

You are discussing the legality of an idea thus legislation is involved by definition.

Of course, were it to be legalized, there would be much work to do. [

I rather see policy before a law is passed.

I'm up for it if Trump would hire me.

Most of what people have said sounds like his EO.

This statement isn't clear.

Addiction is a method of control in many cases. It is also a reason to become one.

But that lengthy document is TLTR.

I know, reading is so 90s.

If something withing it supports your argument, tis best to quote it.

Just keyword search prostitution and sex trafficking. Verify the search as it uses prostitution as an exclusion to sex offenses.

As it should be.

Yes. And I asking for ideas for these laws or what specific this profession falls under.

"WIP"?
If you mean a work in progress, this is true of all business regulation.

No many regulation have more than "Step #1 Pass law. Step #2 WIP

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That the legality of it does not result in remedy of the abuses nor the causes which force people into this profession.

If you're looking for a zero-abuse after legalization and regulation, you won't be anything but disappointed. But can you show that there was zero or marginal improvement?

 

[Shad]

If you're looking for a zero-abuse after legalization and regulation, you won't be anything but disappointed. But can you show that there was zero or marginal improvement?

The NV statistic are above the acceptable median as the regulation exclude many prostitutes such as those with STDs. It help those that are clean, and can stay clean, which is an oxymoron when it comes to this profession.

 

[Revoltingest]

If this profession becomes a legal business pimps can make the transition to "representatives" continuing an already abusive relationship.

If legal regulation can clean up the real estate appraisal
business, then prostitution should be relatively easy.

I rather see policy before a law is passed.

So would I.
We wouldn't want another Obamacare scenario, ie, read the bill after passing it.

Addiction is a method of control in many cases. It is also a reason to become one.

Legalization & regulation should prevent that quite well.

Just keyword search prostitution and sex trafficking. Verify the search as it uses prostitution as an exclusion to sex offenses.

When someone presents evidence for an argument, they typically know what info supports it.
But if I'm to do the searching for them, I'd be far less effective & efficient at doing their job.

Yes. And I asking for ideas for these laws or what specific this profession falls under.

I'd expect it to be similar to licensing a doctor or nurse.
(I'd say "lawyer", but that comparison would deeply offend prostitutes & pimps.)

No many regulation have more than "Step #1 Pass law. Step #2 WIP

I wouldn't approach it that way.

 

[Laika]

But it already happens. The question is not 'do you support prostitution?'

pedophilla already happens but we are still not going to legalise it because we think consent matters.

And that's coming from an atheist right?

Yep. Looks like I'm practically on my own again! Yeah!

 

[Laika]

Hopefully, once regulated, the same policy that most service-based industries have in place would become standard; "we hold the right to refuse service to anyone." This would mean that if the woman (or man!) got to the house and it just did not feel safe, they would be allowed to go. Any company that forbade their sex workers from refusing a particular job could easily get charged with some kind of rights violation, as that would essentially be rape through the employer. This is something that's happening now though, the whole point of legalization would be to end this and put safety measures in place to protect the workers so that coercion would not occur.

I'm not hardline on this (and I agree that legalisation will probably make it safer), but it strikes me as perverse that we regard using drugs or alcohol to exercise an entitlement to someone's elses body as rape, but think that using money is consent.

Its just wierd thinking that money somehow makes it all better.

 

[Kirran]

pedophilla already happens but we are still not going to legalise it because we think consent

Interesting point. However, practically speaking legalising one has solid benefits and legalising the other does not.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not hardline on this (and I agree that legalisation will probably make it safer), but it strikes me as perverse that we regard using drugs or alcohol to exercise an entitlement to someone's elses body as rape, but think that using money is consent.

Its just wierd thinking that money somehow makes it all better.

Very well said and quite insightful coming from a communist! It shows you got morals!

 

[Laika]

Interesting point. However, practically speaking legalising one has solid benefits and legalising the other does not.

I'd say thay both are still violations of consent as we would understand sex as a reflection of a persons actual feelings. I don't really want to push the pedophillia argument- but I think you can see what I'm getting at is that consent can be legally protected in some cases.

Very well said and quite insightful coming from a communist! It shows you got morals!

I try.

 

[Kirran]

I'd say thay both are still violations of consent as we would understand sex as a reflection of a persons actual feelings. I don't really want to push the pedophillia argument- but I think you can see what I'm getting at is that consent can be legally protected in some cases.



I try.

If someone is of sound mind (I.e. not on drugs/alcohol) and consents to perform a sexual service in exchange for money, that is consent. It's a de humanising practice as far as I'm concerned, but it's consent. When it is NOT is when sex workers have no legal protections from coercion, either by clients or pimps. THAT we can do something about.

 

[Laika]

If someone is of sound mind (I.e. not on drugs/alcohol) and consents to perform a sexual service in exchange for money, that is consent. It's a de humanising practice as far as I'm concerned, but it's consent. When it is NOT is when sex workers have no legal protections from coercion, either by clients or pimps. THAT we can do something about.

I'll stand by saying that Money is a medium of coercion. But legalisation does make it safer I guess. Thats the only reason I'd support it in practice.