should prostitution be legal?

[Subduction Zone]

Sure I can tell you how a person might be abused. They can be forced to have sex, they can be coerced to have sex, they can be hit, they can be degraded, they can be emotionally blackmailed, they can be… the list goes on. Or are you asking for me to tell you how each and every “high end” prostitute has been abused? Because that is very different than anything I said. You are the one that made the sweeping generalizations based on how much a Jon pays and some “interviews”. I merely said that your statement was an assumption.

So let us break this down: you heard some “high end” prostitutes in an interview somewhere, and from that you have concluded that high end prostitutes are not exploited. Never mind that the people in the interview could have lied, or the interview that you observed could have been biased, let’s just focus on how inclusive the interviews were that led you to the “reasonable” conclusion that high end prostitutes are not exploited. So let’s have it, what is the sample size we are working with here? From what locations and cultures were the samples drawn?

Oh my! Try again. No strawman arguments. Support your claims. And please, try to reason rationally this time.

 

[We Never Know]

I have heard interviews with the workers. They are not ashamed. They have legal protection of the law. If they feel they are not getting their fair share they can always work elsewhere. It is a free market. Meanwhile you cannot seem to say how they could have been abused.

Can your support that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Can your support that?

Can you be more specific? The answer is probably "Yes".

 

[We Never Know]

Can you be more specific? The answer is probably "Yes".

"I have heard interviews with the workers"

Source?

 

[Riders]

I saw a special about The Ranch in Nevada. They said they have security guards who work and make it safer to do it. they also don´t allow new customers until they run a criminal background check on them. i would say that would be safer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"I have heard interviews with the workers"

Source?

There have been several. Why don't you do your own research? There was a study of the Mustang Ranch that led to a popular book by the author. Here is a freebie, an article on condom use in high paid establishments. The claims of usage of condoms comes from the workers,but it is confirmed by their very low rates of STD's:

Lesson in Condom Use From Women of Mustang Ranch

Dr. Alexa Albert is a researcher on human sexuality issues.

www.latimes.com

 

[We Never Know]

I saw a special about The Ranch in Nevada. They said they have security guards who work and make it safer to do it. they also don´t allow new customers until they run a criminal background check on them. i would say that would be safer.

There's this from the National Center of Sexual Exploitation


"Research confirms that the vast majority of those in prostitution (whether legalized, unregulated, or criminalized) experience both the constant threat of and high rates of, sexual violence and even Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. One study interviewed 854 individuals in prostitution, including in countries where it was legal results revealed that:

• 71% physically assaulted;
• 57% raped; of those raped, 59% were raped more than 5 times;
• 64% threatened with a weapon;
• In Germany, where prostitution is legal, 59% responded that prostitution is not safer with legalization;
• 89% wanted to exit prostitution.
• Equating prostitution with death, one woman stated, “Why commit suicide? I’ll work in prostitution instead (p. 53).”[iii]

In this same study 68% of prostituted individuals had symptoms of symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) on par with that experienced by combat veterans."

Nevada's Legalized Prostitution is Still Exploitation

No matter if it is legal, or illegal, prostitution will always be accompanied and motivated by sexual violence and gender inequality.

endsexualexploitation.org

 

[We Never Know]

There have been several. Why don't you do your own research? There was a study of the Mustang Ranch that led to a popular book by the author. Here is a freebie, an article on condom use in high paid establishments. The claims of usage of condoms comes from the workers,but it is confirmed by their very low rates of STD's:

Lesson in Condom Use From Women of Mustang Ranch

Dr. Alexa Albert is a researcher on human sexuality issues.

www.latimes.com

I have researched...

There's this from the National Center of Sexual Exploitation


"Research confirms that the vast majority of those in prostitution (whether legalized, unregulated, or criminalized) experience both the constant threat of and high rates of, sexual violence and even Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. One study interviewed 854 individuals in prostitution, including in countries where it was legal results revealed that:

• 71% physically assaulted;
• 57% raped; of those raped, 59% were raped more than 5 times;
• 64% threatened with a weapon;
• In Germany, where prostitution is legal, 59% responded that prostitution is not safer with legalization;
• 89% wanted to exit prostitution.
• Equating prostitution with death, one woman stated, “Why commit suicide? I’ll work in prostitution instead (p. 53).”[iii]

In this same study 68% of prostituted individuals had symptoms of symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) on par with that experienced by combat veterans."

Nevada's Legalized Prostitution is Still Exploitation

No matter if it is legal, or illegal, prostitution will always be accompanied and motivated by sexual violence and gender inequality.

endsexualexploitation.org

 

[We Never Know]

There have been several. Why don't you do your own research? There was a study of the Mustang Ranch that led to a popular book by the author. Here is a freebie, an article on condom use in high paid establishments. The claims of usage of condoms comes from the workers,but it is confirmed by their very low rates of STD's:

Lesson in Condom Use From Women of Mustang Ranch

Dr. Alexa Albert is a researcher on human sexuality issues.

www.latimes.com

"Why don't you do your own research?"

Thanks. From now on anytime you ask me to support anything, I'm going to say "Why don't you do your own research"

 

[We Never Know]

There's this from the National Center of Sexual Exploitation


"Research confirms that the vast majority of those in prostitution (whether legalized, unregulated, or criminalized) experience both the constant threat of and high rates of, sexual violence and even Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. One study interviewed 854 individuals in prostitution, including in countries where it was legal results revealed that:

• 71% physically assaulted;
• 57% raped; of those raped, 59% were raped more than 5 times;
• 64% threatened with a weapon;
• In Germany, where prostitution is legal, 59% responded that prostitution is not safer with legalization;
• 89% wanted to exit prostitution.
• Equating prostitution with death, one woman stated, “Why commit suicide? I’ll work in prostitution instead (p. 53).”[iii]

In this same study 68% of prostituted individuals had symptoms of symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) on par with that experienced by combat veterans."

Nevada's Legalized Prostitution is Still Exploitation

No matter if it is legal, or illegal, prostitution will always be accompanied and motivated by sexual violence and gender inequality.

endsexualexploitation.org

And more from the same link...

"As of February 2018, there were at least 21 brothels active in Nevada.Nevada's Legalized Prostitution is Still Exploitation While some people claim that legalization of prostitution provides better regulation and increased safety, the truth is that sexual objectification, coercion, violence, as well as racism and socioeconomic disadvantages are inextricable from the prostitution experience—including Nevada’s legal brothels. Indeed, the very exchange of money (or something of value) to obtain a sex act is itself an act of sexual coercion.


Even when it is legalized, it is impossible to disentangle exploitation from prostitution. One woman who survived being prostituted in two legal brothels in Nevada stated:

“We did not have the ‘independent contractor’ freedom to turn down buyers. Management required us to line up when someone arrived at the brothel. Once picked from the lineup, we would bring the sex buyer back to our room where he was allowed to do whatever he wanted with us… The violent-natured men I encountered in legal brothels are no different than the men buying sex on the streets. I cannot count the number of times I physically fought with men in the brothels and how many times I have been raped because I was too scared to fight back.”

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I personally think so. I have been told if we did legalize it, there would be brothels to live in which is safer for the streets. Since they would all have to be 18 or older I would cut way down on the need for underage prostitutes. Right now sometimes sex traffickers kidnap teens and force them into it. Sometimes they get an older boyfriend who is really a pimp who manipulates and seduces them into it. i am for it if it would get some teens off the streets and away from pimps.
Anyone have a point a view on this?

Yes, it should be legal.
Even if only for the reason that if people want to have sex for money, and other people want to pay for it, who is anyone to tell them that they can't?

Having said that, yes absolutely: legalizing it is the best way to solve many of the problems of the "underground" world.
Making it an actual legal job opens it up for regulation. As such you can make rules concerning age, workplace requirements, etc.

There is no reasonable argument to be made imo for why it would have to be illegal.

 

[We Never Know]

And more from the same link...

"As of February 2018, there were at least 21 brothels active in Nevada.Nevada's Legalized Prostitution is Still Exploitation While some people claim that legalization of prostitution provides better regulation and increased safety, the truth is that sexual objectification, coercion, violence, as well as racism and socioeconomic disadvantages are inextricable from the prostitution experience—including Nevada’s legal brothels. Indeed, the very exchange of money (or something of value) to obtain a sex act is itself an act of sexual coercion.


Even when it is legalized, it is impossible to disentangle exploitation from prostitution. One woman who survived being prostituted in two legal brothels in Nevada stated:

“We did not have the ‘independent contractor’ freedom to turn down buyers. Management required us to line up when someone arrived at the brothel. Once picked from the lineup, we would bring the sex buyer back to our room where he was allowed to do whatever he wanted with us… The violent-natured men I encountered in legal brothels are no different than the men buying sex on the streets. I cannot count the number of times I physically fought with men in the brothels and how many times I have been raped because I was too scared to fight back.”

Here's another link....

"During a two-year investigation, the author, Melissa Farley, visited eight legal brothels in Nevada, interviewing 45 women and a number of brothel owners. Far from enjoying better conditions than those who work illegally, the prostitutes she spoke to are often subject to slave-like conditions.
Described as "***** penitentiaries" by one interviewee, the brothels tend to be in the middle of nowhere, out of sight of ordinary Nevadans. (Brothels are officially allowed only in counties with populations of fewer than 400,000, so prostitution remains an illegal - though vast - trade in conurbations such as Las Vegas.) The brothel prostitutes often live in prison-like conditions, locked in or forbidden to leave.

Farley goes on to say that the physical appearances of the buildings are shocking as well with barbed wire fence surrounding them and grated iron doors. The rooms all have panic buttons, but many women confided they had experienced violent and sexual abuse at the hands of customers and pimps. One pimp starved a woman he considered too fat.

The women are expected to live in the brothels and to work 12- to 14-hour shifts. Mary, a prostitute in a legal brothel for three years, outlines the restrictions. "You are not allowed to have your own car," she notes. "It's like [the pimp's] own little police state." When a customer arrives, a bell rings, and the women immediately have to present themselves in a line-up, so he can choose who to buy.

Sheriffs in some counties of Nevada also enforce practices that are illegal. In one city, for example, prostitutes are not allowed to leave the brothel after 5pm, are not permitted in bars, and, if entering a restaurant, must use a back door and be accompanied by a man.

Brothel owners typically pocket half a women's earnings; they must pay tips and other fee's to the brothels staff, as well as a finder's fee to the cab driver who delivered the customer. The women must also pay for their own condoms, wipes, as well as for the use of towels and sheets.

Farley found a "shocking" lack of services for women in Nevada wishing to leave prostitution. "When prostitution is considered a legal job instead of a human rights violation," says Farley, "why should the state offer services for escape?" More than 80% of those interviewed told Farley they wanted to leave prostitution."

Nevada Brothels: "It's like you sign a contract to be raped"

Friday's edition of the Guardian reviews a new book by Melissa Farley titled, "Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the ...

www.dailykos.com

 

[Heyo]

Here's another link....

"During a two-year investigation, the author, Melissa Farley, visited eight legal brothels in Nevada, interviewing 45 women and a number of brothel owners. Far from enjoying better conditions than those who work illegally, the prostitutes she spoke to are often subject to slave-like conditions.
Described as "***** penitentiaries" by one interviewee, the brothels tend to be in the middle of nowhere, out of sight of ordinary Nevadans. (Brothels are officially allowed only in counties with populations of fewer than 400,000, so prostitution remains an illegal - though vast - trade in conurbations such as Las Vegas.) The brothel prostitutes often live in prison-like conditions, locked in or forbidden to leave.

Farley goes on to say that the physical appearances of the buildings are shocking as well with barbed wire fence surrounding them and grated iron doors. The rooms all have panic buttons, but many women confided they had experienced violent and sexual abuse at the hands of customers and pimps. One pimp starved a woman he considered too fat.

The women are expected to live in the brothels and to work 12- to 14-hour shifts. Mary, a prostitute in a legal brothel for three years, outlines the restrictions. "You are not allowed to have your own car," she notes. "It's like [the pimp's] own little police state." When a customer arrives, a bell rings, and the women immediately have to present themselves in a line-up, so he can choose who to buy.

Sheriffs in some counties of Nevada also enforce practices that are illegal. In one city, for example, prostitutes are not allowed to leave the brothel after 5pm, are not permitted in bars, and, if entering a restaurant, must use a back door and be accompanied by a man.

Brothel owners typically pocket half a women's earnings; they must pay tips and other fee's to the brothels staff, as well as a finder's fee to the cab driver who delivered the customer. The women must also pay for their own condoms, wipes, as well as for the use of towels and sheets.

Farley found a "shocking" lack of services for women in Nevada wishing to leave prostitution. "When prostitution is considered a legal job instead of a human rights violation," says Farley, "why should the state offer services for escape?" More than 80% of those interviewed told Farley they wanted to leave prostitution."

Nevada Brothels: "It's like you sign a contract to be raped"

Friday's edition of the Guardian reviews a new book by Melissa Farley titled, "Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the ...

www.dailykos.com

And what exactly are the crimes here and who are the criminals?
You have brought no argument why prostitution should be illegal, only descriptions that prostitution is still connected to criminals who do what they did before the legalization. And even if nothing has changed at least the legal status of the worker has. They are no longer considered criminals. They can't be arrested for prostitution and they now can, theoretically, sue their "employers" and "customers" without incriminating themselves. That they don't do that is no reason to make them criminals again.

 

[PureX]

No. Prostitution should not be legal. We exploit and abuse each other for profit and pleasure too much as it is. We need to be working on how to limit doing that, not on how to make it more prevalent and acceptable.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We are talking about difficult problems, aren’t we?

Let try to help. That a person in our society are unable to provide their basics needs is not something that is none of our business. In fact, it is our responsibility. A person should not be forced by necessity to engage in “commercial transactions” in which they are exploited. I do not support exploitation and I do not think we, as a society, ought to do so.

So, if we have a person unable to provide for their necessities, then our society should assist them.

I would expect that given your experience you would recognize this and not seek to allow others to exploit the poor, homeless and hungry.

All well and good, except you can't easily turn that "should" into a "does." How many Americans, at the thought of society assisting such people, would scream "socialism" and panic in the streets?

 

[Balthazzar]

The oldest profession in human history - Should it be legalized? I don't think it's going anywhere but forward. It could be safer for those involved, which would be nice for those involved, but ultimately that is largely dependent on those involved in the profession itself. Between management, clientele, and workers is an entire field of possibilities, but .... The traps are often regulated by its illegalities, so legalization can be a bit of a double-edged sword, being both beneficial and detrimental - simultaneously.

 

[wellwisher]

I personally think so. I have been told if we did legalize it, there would be brothels to live in which is safer for the streets. Since they would all have to be 18 or older I would cut way down on the need for underage prostitutes. Right now sometimes sex traffickers kidnap teens and force them into it. Sometimes they get an older boyfriend who is really a pimp who manipulates and seduces them into it. i am for it if it would get some teens off the streets and away from pimps.
Anyone have a point a view on this?

Prostitution is already legal, but in an indirect way. It is called dating.

I was watching a sitcom; Young Sheldon, where one of the main characters wanted to start a keno parlor in the back room of her business, but gambling was illegal. The work around was when people won, they got prizes instead of cash. The house would then buy back the prizes, so there was no formal exchange of money for gambling; money for prizes but not for gambling.

Dating uses the same loophole; trade using merchandise instead of cash. Prostitution would make it more direct, honest and less work for men and would start to compete with dating.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Prostitution is already legal, but in an indirect way. It is called dating.

I was watching a sitcom; Young Sheldon, where one of the main characters wanted to start a keno parlor in the back room of her business, but gambling was illegal. The work around was when people won, they got prizes instead of cash. The house would then buy back the prizes, so there was no formal exchange of money for gambling; money for prizes but not for gambling.

Dating uses the same loophole; trade using merchandise instead of cash. Prostitution would make it more direct, honest and less work for men and would start to compete with dating.

Or, just rubbish from some religious perspective, as so many know this. Given there is no 'right' way to evolve as a species.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure, and I got a good price (more than my deposit). But the only reason I felt inclined to do so, was that the wiring was already fully exposed and so bad it would have caused a fire if someone tried to use it. Further the pipes were never connected to a water line, so no water could have ran through them anyway. Shame on them for renting a home with such conditions.

You'll have to blame city government for the lack of water.
They'd ceased all service because the water treatment
plant had to shut down due to a lack of diversity in its
work force. They felt it unethical to continue with too
many white males working there.
It's normal for Romex wiring to be exposed where you
saw it, ie, in the basement ceiling.

Additionally, while I was looking for scrap I found several sites of friable asbestos and black mold. Luckily I only rented for a day, otherwise I would worry about my exposure.

The asbestos had been encapsulated, as required to be safe.
It only became exposed when you tore into it for material
to make that weird fetish....that you left behind for me to
clean up!

That landlord was some cranky old engineer, that has several other flop houses that he rents by the hour, I am wondering if I could use some more scrap.

BTW, your neighbors complained about your loud TV's
non-stop airing of Keeping Up With The Kardashians.

So your lame hypothetical analogue arguing against
legalizing prostitution is mere vapid prudery & fascism.

 

[Curious George]

Oh my! Try again. No strawman arguments. Support your claims. And please, try to reason rationally this time.

lol, that isn’t a straw man argument. That is pretty clearly showing that your statement was an assumption.