Should Tipping be Banned?

[CaptainNobody]

I don't think it should be banned, but it should definitely not be compulsory. I remember going to a bar with my relatives who were visiting the country from Europe, and the bartender was getting upset because they didn't remember to tip. Of course it's actually considered a bit rude to tip a bartender where they come from.

I think restaurants should pay their employees better wages so that tipping would be less important.

 

[Shermana]

I think the idea of expected and mandatory tipping is a natural sign of the sense of entitlement permeating the country, and a sign of how much employers look to take advantage of their employees.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I always thought that waitresses got little to no pay and pretty much are payed off of the tips?

 

[Me Myself]

I always thought that waitresses got little to no pay and pretty much are payed off of the tips?

Its like charity.

(For the employers)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I always thought that waitresses got little to no pay and pretty much are payed off of the tips?

Yep. And the thread is debating the ethics of such a system.

Let's look at strip clubs, though, and debate whether a good lap dance is based on quality or the size of the dancer's breasts. I'll have to look it up for data, but my friends all told me getting more money through tips was only because they had breast enhancement surgery. They didn't buy bigger breasts to feel good about themselves, for a boyfriend, or anything else besides a purely economical reason: patrons tip generally because of the image, not the dancing.

Which of course bummed us out because a few of these women I shared the stage with on a ballet mainstage. They'd joke that they rehearsed and worked far more and much more intensively as a ballet dancer but would make $6,000 a year. But suddenly get a windfall of cash somehow, go buy a pair of breasts, work the tables at night and earn $60,000 a year. The only problem is that large breasts are not aesthetically typical on a ballet mainstage, so they become problematic physically and visually. Usually, these dancers would "retire" from ballet and just make money as strippers. Because they made more money and because they felt exiled by the ballet community.

I will say this though, it's interesting to read the responses of non-Americans generally talk about what are fair wages for staff while Americans are generally responding with earning potential. Me? I was just looking to eat and survive.

 

[Apex]

Just to get this out of the way I do tip alright. My standard tip is 12-15% (used to be 15% but I told myself I don't earn enough to give that percentage every time I eat outside). I tip well above that for what I consider exceptional and very friendly service, something like 30% for really great service.

But just to take part in the discussion and see what people think, I still have some points to make, some of them are mainly philosophical.

Here's the thing, many people have demanding jobs which are taken for granted and they get no tips for. It's simply bizarre that certain services should get tips. While I don't want to downplay the stress of working as a waiter, there are much much more demanding jobs which get you zero tips.
The whole concept of restaurant owners not taking care of the wage of their workers is the real problem. It's corruption.
I work all day outside in all weather conditions and get home with dirt behind my ears and between my toes... who tips me?

Extra payment for services should be given to a master sword maker for producing the perfect sword, or a lute maker who crafted a flawless instrument, not for bringing me my burger and Pepsi Max from the kitchen (again no disrespect). The service is too inane to be standardizes with a tip system. A tip should say that a person has gone above and beyond in producing a masterful product, not for something so standard as working in a restaurant.

When I was traveling China and tried to tip, I was strictly told off by staff and even waiters that they are forbidden to take tips. So some countries do have a different system.

Bottom line is, we all are supposed to get our full wage from our employers, the public is not supposed to fill in the gaps of what employees are entitled for. Waiting tables can be a demanding job, but so are hundreds of others jobs which get no tipping whatsoever.
I used to work as a security officer in one of the biggest hotels in Israel, my job included many extra duties that were taken for granted, who tipped me for that? during the American invasion of Iraq in 2003, our workload was so heavy I used to work 18 hours a day, I don't even think these counted as extra hours. Just food for thought.

BTW for those who don't like tipping there are solutions. There are places like Nando's that you normally don't need to tip staff. All places that you pick up your food by yourself solve this issue. There is an Italian restaurant which works like that not far for where I live, it feels great to pay only 150 NIS for two main courses, a side dish, and two glasses of wine. I love to eat outside, but I'm not rich.
If restaurant owners can't take the burden of paying a full legal salary for their workers, perhaps we will only be left with the properly functioning restaurants that can make it work well.

That being said I am realistic. I tip for a range of services, also because the task is hard, but also because I know that the tips are a lifeline for the employee on the economic level.

^This.

 

[savagewind]

I don't know if tipping should be banned. I think service in restaurants will not be as good if waiters depend on the restaurant owner to pay. I am going to tell you a story in reply to a post or two.

Two waiters at the same restaurant. One waiter gets a party of ten. They have a choice of soup or salad. As the diners order their entees the waiter asks "would you like soup or salad?" The diner says "what kind of soup?" She answers. "I'll have salad" says the diner. "What kind of dressing would you like, we have italian, ranch, blue cheese, or oil and vinegar. Diner answers. The rest of the people are talking to each other. Next diner orders. "Would you like soup or salad?" "what kind of soup is it"? ...."No, I'll have salad". "What dressing would you like?" Sometimes the waiter gets lucky and someone in the party does not need asking. Phew! Then the cook cooks an entree. If she asks where are the rest she might get in trouble so she must wait patiently for the rest. Sometimes the cook makes the wrong thing. Anyway, she gets 12 %.

The other waiter waits on Caladan and his partner. He knows just what he wants and he gets it. The cook even cooperates perfectly this time. So does the bar tender. She get 30%.

It is even possible that party one and party two owe the same amount total.

It happens.

Did you think it's about the difference in diners? It is about the difference in circumstance. Caladan could be the one in party one who did not need asking, but because of circumstances beyond the waiter's control it did not go perfectly well for a let's say 15% tip. Many people disapprove of a waiter's service when it is the fault of the cook, or someone else.

 

[Erebus]

I quite like the tipping system we have in England. It's not compulsory and not necessarily expected (depending where you go) instead it's treated as a bonus or a thankyou to the staff. Rather than work out a percentage a lot of people just leave a few pounds in a tip jar or tell the staff they can keep the change.
Usually tips are gathered up at the end of the day and either split evenly between staff or put towards work nights out, Christmas parties and so on. The only real problem is some greedy employers keep the tips for themselves.

 

[Caladan]

I quite like the tipping system we have in England. It's not compulsory and not necessarily expected (depending where you go) instead it's treated as a bonus or a thankyou to the staff. Rather than work out a percentage a lot of people just leave a few pounds in a tip jar or tell the staff they can keep the change.
Usually tips are gathered up at the end of the day and either split evenly between staff or put towards work nights out, Christmas parties and so on. The only real problem is some greedy employers keep the tips for themselves.

See I lived in London for two years and always tipped. Some things are only learnt on the internet

 

[Willamena]

If you're any good as a waiter or waitress, you can make well above minimum wage (About $8/hr) in tips. I used to average somewhere around $22 or $23 an hour in tips at a mid-scale restaurant. If they had done away with tips, I would not have agreed to the job.

Wages and income are not the same thing.

Well, I could amend my thinking and say that only that portion of the law that allows for exemptions from minimum wage for tip earning jobs should be eliminated; but I more favour all jobs being on an even keel. There's no reason waiters and bus boys couldn't make an above-minimum wage salary, but it would seem their ability to earn tips is what's holding that salary back.

 

[Erebus]

See I lived in London for two years and always tipped. Some things are only learnt on the internet

Ahh I've never been as far south as London you see There is a massive cultural difference between the North and the South of England for sure. I still remember one of my first year uni flatmates being amazed at how northern girls drink pints as readily as the men

 

[Caladan]

Ahh I've never been as far south as London you see There is a massive cultural difference between the North and the South of England for sure. I still remember one of my first year uni flatmates being amazed at how northern girls drink pints as readily as the men

Just to make sure we are talking about the same situation, I noticed you were talking about tip jars. I believe the rest of us were discussing more about actual waiting service, ie waiting a table.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I love to tip people for good service. When the boys at the dock see me floating up to get fuel, they come running. When I walk into a bar that I frequent, my drink is made perfect and waiting on me before I sit down.

I never wait long for my breakfast no matter how busy the resturant is.

My daughter is in the service industry, she makes awesome money for a kid in college. She understands how the system works. Work in an upscale establishment and give people beyond what they are used to receiving other places.

Excellent people deserve excellent compensation. All servers are not equal nor should they be paid the same.

If you want to park a mile from some place to save tip money, fine. I like being treated special and make it worth folks time to make my life more enjoyable.

People who don't like tipping are cheap or lazy in my opinion.

 

[averageJOE]

Just to get this out of the way I do tip alright. My standard tip is 12-15% (used to be 15% but I told myself I don't earn enough to give that percentage every time I eat outside). I tip well above that for what I consider exceptional and very friendly service, something like 30% for really great service.

But just to take part in the discussion and see what people think, I still have some points to make, some of them are mainly philosophical.

Here's the thing, many people have demanding jobs which are taken for granted and they get no tips for. It's simply bizarre that certain services should get tips. While I don't want to downplay the stress of working as a waiter, there are much much more demanding jobs which get you zero tips.
The whole concept of restaurant owners not taking care of the wage of their workers is the real problem. It's corruption.
I work all day outside in all weather conditions and get home with dirt behind my ears and between my toes... who tips me?

Extra payment for services should be given to a master sword maker for producing the perfect sword, or a lute maker who crafted a flawless instrument, not for bringing me my burger and Pepsi Max from the kitchen (again no disrespect). The service is too inane to be standardized with a tip system. A tip should say that a person has gone above and beyond in producing a masterful product, not for something so standard as working in a restaurant.

When I was traveling China and tried to tip, I was strictly told off by staff and even waiters that they are forbidden to take tips. So some countries do have a different system.

Bottom line is, we all are supposed to get our full wage from our employers, the public is not supposed to fill in the gaps of what employees are entitled for. Waiting tables can be a demanding job, but so are hundreds of others jobs which get no tipping whatsoever.
I used to work as a security officer in one of the biggest hotels in Israel, my job included many extra duties that were taken for granted, who tipped me for that? during the American invasion of Iraq in 2003, our workload was so heavy I used to work 18 hours a day, I don't even think these counted as extra hours. Just food for thought.

BTW for those who don't like tipping there are solutions. There are places like Nando's that you normally don't need to tip staff. All places that you pick up your food by yourself solve this issue. There is an Italian restaurant which works like that not far for where I live, it feels great to pay only 150 NIS for two main courses, a side dish, and two glasses of wine. I love to eat outside, but I'm not rich.
If restaurant owners can't take the burden of paying a full legal salary for their workers, perhaps we will only be left with the properly functioning restaurants that can make it work well.

That being said I am realistic. I tip for a range of services, also because the task is hard, but also because I know that the tips are a lifeline for the employee on the economic level.

Where would you fit in strip clubs into this? Their pay is 100% from tips.

 

[HonestJoe]

Can't know that unless you've actually done it, since how much work is done is hidden from the customers in most places.

Doesn't that make tipping a really bad way to determine how much they should be paid then?

 

[Father Heathen]

[youtube]Z-qV9wVGb38[/youtube]
Reservoir Dogs - Tipping Scene - YouTube

 

[Caladan]

Where would you fit in strip clubs into this? Their pay is 100% from tips.

Why should I solve the strip club economy?
Also, not everything needs to fall into my equation, it's not like we are talking mathematics.

 

[Sunstone]

There's no reason waiters and bus boys couldn't make an above-minimum wage salary, but it would seem their ability to earn tips is what's holding that salary back.

Don't kid me. I'm old enough to know what employers do with salaries they have control over -- they cut them every chance they get. Your notion employers would pay anywhere near what a waiter can make in tips, if tips were eliminated, strikes me as profoundly naive.

 

[Alceste]

I love to tip people for good service. When the boys at the dock see me floating up to get fuel, they come running. When I walk into a bar that I frequent, my drink is made perfect and waiting on me before I sit down.

I never wait long for my breakfast no matter how busy the resturant is.

My daughter is in the service industry, she makes awesome money for a kid in college. She understands how the system works. Work in an upscale establishment and give people beyond what they are used to receiving other places.

Excellent people deserve excellent compensation. All servers are not equal nor should they be paid the same.

If you want to park a mile from some place to save tip money, fine. I like being treated special and make it worth folks time to make my life more enjoyable.

People who don't like tipping are cheap or lazy in my opinion.

Call the papers! I actually agree with you. I like it when a waiter knows exactly what I'm there for, and being a good tipper is one way to make sure they remember.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Until wait staff make a living wage, I will tip unless I have terrible service. However, I have never had service so bad that I don't leave a tip. Look, the bottom line is that their job is harder and less rewarding than anything I've ever had to do. I don't expect my server to smile like a goof and lay on the sweetness just to give me the illusion that they are excited to see me. For one, I don't buy it, and two, I think it's insulting to expect that of someone after they've been on their feet for 10 hours.

If you can't afford the tip, stay at home. If you have the money for a $50 steak, tipping 20% isn't going to break you. On the other hand, 20% might actually help a struggling waitress per her heat bill this month.

I get that people find it awkward sometimes - talk about first world problems.:sarcastic

I would love it if the tipping system went away and people earned a living wage - but it hasn't and people don't, so I tip.


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