Should we fear Islam?

[Gharib]

I disagree with your desperate conclusion that Ba'al's opinion on it is some sort of absolute final answer.

However, I cannot help but notice that in your desperation you jump to all sorts of faulty conclusions based upon your assumptions.

Of course, it could just be your prejudice showing.

Either way, it is most entertaining watching you make a complete arse of your self in your futile quest.

Carry on.

i'd like him to go on too. whats the worst that could happen?

 

[Composer]

we have legitimate historical evidence of Muhammed (saws) sayig that Allah is the author of the Quran.

Sure, but your problem is that you DO NOT have Allah saying Muhammed is the Author, you admit you ONLY have Muhammed ' claiming ' that 1. Allah even literally exists 2. That this Allah is the literal author of the Qur'an.

When an Allah pops out in the sky and speaks to the world and says " I am Allah and I wrote the Qur'an! "

THEN I'll believe it!

You can apply those same requirements to the God of the Christians or any other God others choose to believe in!

Meanwhile, at best you have various vivid imaginations at work ALL claiming some religious ideology or another.

 

[Composer]

that is really interesting, i missed it the first time i replied. so when it comes to quoting hadith that are in your favour, they are legitimate historical proof. but when it comes to hadith that are not in your favour such as Muhammed (saws) saying he is the prophet of Allah (swt) then such hadith are not legitimate historical proof.

thank you composer.

Not at all.

Do you deny the Hadith or believe it to be true?

I have one person telling me that nothing is true except in the Qur'an and I have others saying that isn't the case and Hadiths and other external documents are legitimate?

Which is it going to be?

You Muslems can't even get your story straight without contradicting each other?

Perhaps a Poll should be made asking Moslems whether they believe ONLY the Qur'anic writings or believe external writings also?

Let's see if you Moslems can agree about something as fundamental as that?

 

[.lava]

Which is it going to be?

You Muslems can't even get your story straight without contradicting each other?

why do you care? obviously you'd oppose anything believers say. even if God appeared for you and told you what you expect to hear, you'd probably assume you had a dream or hallucination. that's how things work. once upon a time Mohammad SAW was asked for a miracle, they promised they would believe him in case he could show one and they were given what they asked for by Allah who have Prophet as its proxy but they called him magician. you just change and corrupt meaning of everything just to make them fit your prejudice.

btw it is not a story and it is not ours. we are nothing like a private club where everyone wears the same t-shirts. this is just way too childish to expect over billion people to feel, to think, to observe and to speak the same. atheists also are not absolutely the same either. you're not the first one who oppose all religions and Oneness of God but still, you remain unique as being the only one who acts like Don Quixote

.

 

[Gharib]

Sure, but your problem is that you DO NOT have Allah saying Muhammed is the Author, you admit you ONLY have Muhammed ' claiming ' that 1. Allah even literally exists 2. That this Allah is the literal author of the Qur'an.

Muhammed (saws) is not the author of the quran, thats the point, he is the messenger.

When an Allah pops out in the sky and speaks to the world and says " I am Allah and I wrote the Qur'an! "

THEN I'll believe it!

would you like a muffin with that?

that day will be judgement day, unfortunately it will be too late to believe when that does happen.

You can apply those same requirements to the God of the Christians or any other God others choose to believe in!

alright lets see, how about you provide evidence that god doesn't eixts.

Meanwhile, at best you have various vivid imaginations at work ALL claiming some religious ideology or another.

problem solved, only one is real, but you can't deal with it so ALL are clasified as lies according to you.

 

[Autodidact]

liar.

Muhammed (saws) has said that the quran is from Allah, are you now going to say that is not evidence.

 

[Tiapan]

There is hope

gulfnews : Saudi woman blasts clerics in TV contest poem

Cheers

 

[Autodidact]

There is hope

gulfnews : Saudi woman blasts clerics in TV contest poem

Cheers

On the other hand, she had to brave death threats to do it, while wearing a burka.

 

[Composer]

why do you care? obviously you'd oppose anything believers say. even if God appeared for you and told you what you expect to hear, you'd probably assume you had a dream or hallucination. that's how things work. once upon a time Mohammad SAW was asked for a miracle, they promised they would believe him in case he could show one and they were given what they asked for by Allah who have Prophet as its proxy but they called him magician. you just change and corrupt meaning of everything just to make them fit your prejudice.

btw it is not a story and it is not ours. we are nothing like a private club where everyone wears the same t-shirts. this is just way too childish to expect over billion people to feel, to think, to observe and to speak the same. atheists also are not absolutely the same either. you're not the first one who oppose all religions and Oneness of God but still, you remain unique as being the only one who acts like Don Quixote

.

In other words you (just like christians) can't legitimately support your claim that an Allah/God gave its Words to some one to write down.

Instead you make silly personal attacks against me and appeal to " Well millions of us believe so that must be enough? "

In other words your legitimate evidence remains at 0 and your propaganda at 100%

 

[.lava]

In other words you (just like christians) can't legitimately support your claim that an Allah/God gave its Words to some one to write down.

Instead you make silly personal attacks against me and appeal to " Well millions of us believe so that must be enough? "

In other words your legitimate evidence remains at 0 and your propaganda at 100%

please go back in pages and read my replies to you. i already answered the same stuff before. since it is not entertaining or teaching, i see no point repeating myself

.

 

[Composer]

please go back in pages and read my replies to you. i already answered the same stuff before. since it is not entertaining or teaching, i see no point repeating myself

.

I have no intention of being sent on a wild goose chase of 53 pages.

IF you believe you have answered then by all means list the Posts and I'll check myself?

Firstly can you also please hop over to the Poll and answer that for me and then start your search for the other answers you ' claimed ' to have already made that answered my questions!

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/95008-quran-only-poll.html

Thank you!

 

[.lava]

I have no intention of being sent on a wild goose chase of 53 pages.

IF you believe you have answered then by all means list the Posts and I'll check myself?

Firstly can also please hop over to the Poll and answer that for me and then start your search for the other answers you ' claimed ' to have already made!

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/95008-quran-only-poll.html

Thank you!

that actually proves that you don't even bother reading replies to you.

i certainly won't join such a useless poll. that queston is already answered too. but, no, friend, i won't go back and quote those replies that's made only for you since you never cared for what i said in the first place

.

 

[Composer]

that actually proves that you don't even bother reading replies to you.

That's obviously not true because I invariably respond to you and my repeated questions demonstrate you don't answer them and hence I have to repeat them and here again you can't find them so you make up excuses for yourself.

i certainly won't join such a useless poll.

Useless to whom, not to me?

that queston is already answered too.

Then as you claim it is already answered then -

1. You shouldn't have a problem restating that alleged answer!
2. It can't be a useless poll because you claim to have answered it already but alas fail to prove so?

but, no, friend, i won't go back and quote those replies that's made only for you since you never cared for what i said in the first place.

If I didn't care, I certainly wouldn't be here and elsewhere asking for your comments. The fact you don't care to answer them and make excuses and personal attacks instead doesn't take rocket science to know why you behave like that! (i.e. Facts are you can not legitimately justify your current cause!)

 

[.lava]

If I didn't care, I certainly wouldn't be here and elsewhere asking for your comments. The fact you don't care to answer them and make excuses and personal attacks instead doesn't take rocket science to know why you behave like that! (i.e. Facts are you can not legitimately justify your current cause!)

fine...here are some quotes from my earlier replies to you;

no human could provide you proof or evidence. only God can. so ask from God not from weak people like yourself.

relationship with God has always been personal and private. or else, why would all of us have seperated free wills, seperated minds, seperated bodies? you are basicly asking me to make you digest what i eat. it is impossible to do that, Composer.

it would be great if you just stop acting like a man who demands to get his passport from wal-mart. you and i are equal. i ask evidence from authority. because no human can provide it.

note that i told them to you. someone who wants to learn, who's searching for truth would definetely find evidence, many more than just once, of course

.

 

[Composer]

fine...here are some quotes from my earlier replies to you;

fine...here are some quotes from my earlier replies to you;

no human could provide you proof or evidence. only God can. so ask from God not from weak people like yourself. [/quote]
Ok so just as I said, you have NO legitimate evidence!

relationship with God has always been personal and private. or else, why would all of us have seperated free wills, seperated minds, seperated bodies? you are basicly asking me to make you digest what i eat. it is impossible to do that, Composer.

That doesn't answer the fact you have NO evidence for the authenticity of the Qur'an than the Mormons do of their BoM or the christians do with their story book.

it would be great if you just stop acting like a man who demands to get his passport from wal-mart. you and i are equal. i ask evidence from authority. because no human can provide it.

Precisely why you have NO legitimate evidence at all.

When Allah or God pops their head out and says " I am God/Allah, I wrote the Qur'an " or the BoM or the Bible, then I will believe.

Meanwhile you ALL have 0 except a blind empty faith based upon your vivid imaginations!

note that i told them to you. someone who wants to learn, who's searching for truth would definetely find evidence, many more than just once, of course.

I have ALL the evidence needed to condemn ALL religions based on Faith alone, you just don't want to acknowledge that!

We realists need to be fearful of ALL such ill founded ideologies.

 

[.lava]

[/font]
fine...here are some quotes from my earlier replies to you;

no human could provide you proof or evidence. only God can. so ask from God not from weak people like yourself.
Ok so just as I said, you have NO legitimate evidence!


That doesn't answer the fact you have NO evidence for the authenticity of the Qur'an than the Mormons do of their BoM or the christians do with their story book.


Precisely why you have NO legitimate evidence at all.

When Allah or God pops their head out and says " I am God/Allah, i wrote the Qur'an " or the BoM or the Bible then I will believe.

Meanwhile you ALL have 0 except a blind empty faith based upon your vivid imaginations!


I have ALL the evidence needed to condemn ALL religions based on Faith alone, you just don't want to acknowledge that!

dude, i am getting tired of this. i haven't started a thread where i said i would prove things. i am a Muslim and things i believe is certain and i am certain in my own life so i continue my path. if i need any evidence, i would need it for myself not others. maybe there could be some others who think they could prove Qur'an is word of God and there is God, then go deal with them. stop treating every single religious as if we all here trying to prove things

.

 

[Composer]

[/FONT]

dude, i am getting tired of this. i haven't started a thread where i said i would prove things.

I never intimated you did start a thread for that purpose but you certainly incorporate that philosopy in your posts by the fact you want others to believe the Qur'anic text is a literal god's/Allah's Words. So stop pretending otherwise.

i am a Muslim and things i believe is certain

Of course it is currently certain you want to believe what you want to believe but believing for believing's sake is absurd.

and i am certain in my own life so i continue my path.

So say every other group, so why should any one want to believe Your ideology in particular when like ALL of them your evidence = 0 apart from blind faith and a vivid imagination?

if i need any evidence, i would need it for myself not others.

So are you working with evidence now or not? IF yes then where did you get it from and why did you believe it to be true?

maybe there could be some others who think they could prove Qur'an is word of God

I can't even get any Moslem to state whether the Qur'an is the ONLY legitimate text they want to believe or whether external writings are included and no one has responded to my Poll over that tiny question let alone tried to prove the Qur'an is a literal God's Words?

and there is God, then go deal with them. stop treating every single religious as if we all here trying to prove things.

So Islam is not worth proving as legitimate and that isn't your motivation and intention. I frankly don't believe it!

 

[.lava]

I never intimated you did start a thread for that purpose but you certainly incorporate that philosopy in your posts by the fact you want others to believe the Qur'anic text is a literal god's/Allah's Words. So stop pretending otherwise.

well, that's because i am a Muslim. so even i simply state that i am a Muslim that shows i believe in God. but why do you think my faith in God naturally puts me in a position as if i challenge your disbelief? how on Earth something that's suppose to be very personal and private turns into a challenge before you as if it is something about you and your lack of faith? care to explain?

Of course it is currently certain you want to believe what you want to believe but believing for believing's sake is absurd.

come on, now. you don't know me personally and you don't my reasons and my experiences. what absurd is you treating me as if you know all about me. why don't you try to understand people instead of blocking communication channels with prejudices and blindness of arguing?

So say every other group, so why should any one want to believe Your ideology in particular when like ALL of them your evidence = 0 apart from blind faith and a vivid imagination?

faith is not blind. people might be. religion is not ideology until it turns into a worldly practice. see? you still talk about evidence and even though you say it yourself that it is a evidence to be mine. if i have evidence, it is meant for me personally.

So are you working with evidence now or not? IF yes then where did you get it from and why did you believe it to be true?

huh...do you really expect me to share such a thing that value maybe more than anything with someone who would call it fairy tales? no way, dude. i care for my experiences and i won't waste them on anyone. they are my private life, my unique relationship with my real owner.

I can't even get any Moslem to state whether the Qur'an is the ONLY legitimate text they want to believe or whether external writings are included and no one has responded to my Poll over that tiny question let alone tried to prove the Qur'an is a literal God's Words?

you know, i've made friends with some people who don't believe in God. only because they showed respect to me and my path. love, respect and being friendly are our common ground thought we are living very different lives. think about it.

So Islam is not worth proving as legitimate and that isn't your motivation and intention. I frankly don't believe it!

Islam is like an invitation. you can't benefit my acceptance. only i benefit my own acceptance, got it?

.

 

[Composer]

well, that's because i am a Muslim.

What branch / sect / group of Muslem?

Why do you reject the others?

so even i simply state that i am a Muslim that shows i believe in God.

Sure, but that doesn't mean a god believes in you!

It doesn't mean a God told Muhammed to write a book!

I also believe Muhammed couldn't write?

but why do you think my faith in God naturally puts me in a position as if i challenge your disbelief?

Strangely enough as I hace stated many times befrore I DO believe in an Intelligent designer (I refer to as God for want of a better word) but I have NO legitimate evidence either except the belief that I didn't create myself or the things and universe around me.)

This ID/God is unworthy of my worship! (Mainly because of the injustice, diseases, ailments, atrocities, earthquakes, tsunamis etc. etc) all things condoned or even caused by this ID/God or else no intervention to prevent them.

how on Earth something that's suppose to be very personal and private turns into a challenge before you as if it is something about you and your lack of faith? care to explain?

#1: Religion isn't simply a private matter. IF you think it is then you are NOT performing your duties to your fellow man by keeping it private and of course that means ' to yourself '. IF you did then you would be selfish for keeping something you believe is good to yourself and not wishing to share it or at least let others see what you hold so dear and decide for themselves if it is what you claim it to be and either join you or reject it?

come on, now. you don't know me personally and you don't my reasons and my experiences. what absurd is you treating me as if you know all about me. why don't you try to understand people instead of blocking communication channels with prejudices and blindness of arguing?

Please see #1: above!

faith is not blind. people might be. religion is not ideology until it turns into a worldly practice. see? you still talk about evidence and even though you say it yourself that it is a evidence to be mine. if i have evidence, it is meant for me personally.

Faith is blind and intangible.

You still haven't told me why your Faith is better or the correct one as opposed to say Mormon faith or Christian faith?

huh...do you really expect me to share such a thing that value maybe more than anything with someone who would call it fairy tales? no way, dude. i care for my experiences and i won't waste them on anyone. they are my private life, my unique relationship with my real owner.

It obviously isn't worth sharing with others, ok, I accept that!

you know, i've made friends with some people who don't believe in God. only because they showed respect to me and my path. love, respect and being friendly are our common ground thought we are living very different lives. think about it.

I am not primarily here to make friends. I am here to teach Truth.

Islam is like an invitation. you can't benefit my acceptance. only i benefit my own acceptance, got it?

Mormons invite just the same. Christians invite just the same etc. etc.

In reality you have nothing except an imagined belief that your current group/belief/ideology is ordained by a God / Allah and that your book is the literal Words of a God/Allah.

 

[.lava]

What branch / sect / group of Muslem?

Why do you reject the others?

i don't define my path with sections. i am a Muslim and i am not rejecting "others" because there is no other. that is what "no section" means.

[quot]Sure, but that doesn't mean a god believes in you!

It doesn't mean a God told Muhammed to write a book!

I also believe Muhammed couldn't write?[/quote]

you can believe anything you want, i have no problem with that.

Strangely enough as I hace stated many times befrore I DO believe in an Intelligent designer (I refer to as God for want of a better word) but I have NO legitimate evidence either except the belief that I didn't create myself or the things and universe around me.)

This ID/God is unworthy of my worship! (Mainly because of the injustice, diseases, ailments, atrocities, earthquakes, tsunamis etc. etc) all things condoned or even caused by this ID/God or else no intervention to prevent them.

i am sorry, i did not know that and does not matter because you are on your own with it whatever you call it.

#1: Religion isn't simply a private matter. IF you think it is then you are NOT performing your duties to your fellow man by keeping it private and of course that means ' to yourself '. IF you did then you would be selfish for keeping something you believe is good to yourself and not wishing to share it or at least let others see what you hold so dear and decide for themselves if it is what you claim it to be and either join you or reject it?

you can't explain what blue is with words. it is something like that.

Please see #1: above!

Faith is blind and intangible.

maybe you are blind to faith

You still haven't told me why your Faith is better or the correct one as opposed to say Mormon faith or Christian faith?

i never made such a claim. God looks within hearts and only God knos who's close to it. could be a Christian or Jew or Hindu. not my business to judge.

It obviously isn't worth sharing with others, ok, I accept that!

I am not primarily here to make friends. I am here to teach Truth.

can you love someone who holds different beliefs? everyone is sharing what they believe. but most of people are different from each other. this is not a place to fight. i am not trying to win. actually i think it is waste of tiem trying to win or change beliefs of other, trying to prove truth...etc

Mormons invite just the same. Christians invite just the same etc. etc.

In reality you have nothing except an imagined belief that your current group/belief/ideology is ordained by a God / Allah and that your book is the literal Words of a God/Allah.

that's your assumption and you are free to believe whatever you wat to believe. just know, my friend, i won't become what you think i am

.