Should Women's Homeless Shelters Ban Trans Identified Males?

[Estro Felino]

...so? Why are you so fixated on whether someone has xx or xy chromosomes? If you can tell someone's genetic makeup at a glance, I'm happy to concede the point, however I doubt you or anyone else can.

I have xy chromosomes but I was born with a severe hydrocele which is symptom of intersexuality in some cases.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So I don't understand those MtF who don't feel the same

I don't feel the same. I don't feel the same with most of your posts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm of the opinion that the Psychological Community and the Drug companies were shameless in the pseudo treatment of those with Gender Identity Disorder.

I'll take the "pseudo treatment" over the life i had before, which no doubt woukd have landed me in jail by now.

Life for a "T" person is hard enough, why would anyone who expects to face God to be judged treat one badly? Suicide rate remains over 40% even after surgery. With what trump and his minions are doing, life feels more threatening every day, and perhaps the events of one day will be enough and I will suicide. I've been resisting it but bigots do not make it easier.

**** them. If fear and hate are reasons to stay in the closet, we wouldnt have legal gay marriage at the federal level.

 

[Enoch07]

One question, @Father Heathen .
If they forced you to use the female locker room, would you be unhappy about it?

I guess you wouldn't.
So as for me, I'm happy if I can still use the male locker room.

I am not ashamed of saying I like men....the male body.

Hmm interesting. See now I'm ok with a coed bathroom (use one everyday at work). I would be self conscious sharing a locker room though. For 2 reasons, 1 I'm fat and self conscious, 2 undoubtedly my pervert eyes would betray me, bad eyes bad eyes!

BUT!!!

When I go to the doctor or message therapist anything that requires intimate but not sexual contact, I prefer female doctors/nurses. So yeh that's odd but whatevs I guess.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't feel the same. I don't feel the same with most of your posts.

With all due respect...I am into males and I'm not ashamed of saying it...what's wrong with that?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It's about the women who come to shelters who are afraid of men, for good reason. Men lie. Men who are stalkers lie. It would not be a bit difficult for a man to come to a shelter and SAY 'but "i'm a woman!" and gain entrance for the purpose of coming after someone.

This paragraph is ridiculous on multiple levels.

1 - Dangerous stereotyping of men as inherently a threat to women in all situations.
2 - Confusing trans female with male (again, for some reason).
3 - Women are just as capable of doing the exact same as everything you just outlined.
4 - Shelters have checks and balances in place to ensure the people who use them are safe.
5 - This situation could just as easily happen whether or not a shelter allows trans people to use it (for example, a man could attend the shelter saying that they are actually trans male, but can't use a men's shelter because of their biological gender).

Is this a little 'out of the realm of possibility?" Not really. Women who must resort to such shelters are dealing with men who will do just about anything.

If that's the case, then what difference would it make whether shelters allow trans women into them or not?

So...a man who cannot prove that he is properly diagnosed and on a treatment plan to change his physical gender would be, were I in charge, told no. when he can come with the paperwork, ok, but based only on his word?

No.

So you'd deny access to somebody seeking assistance who didn't have the foresight to grab a copy of their medical records because they're fleeing an abusive relationship because you think trans women are dangerous despite a complete lack of evidence, and you'd potentially leave that person in greater jeopardy by forcing them to use a men's shelter (where they are substantially more likely to be subject to abuse) or returning to their abusive relationship.

On top of this, you would also have the apply the exact same rigmarole to every cis woman who attended the shelter, because you would need to investigate whether or not they are actually trans women before you gave them access, so they are also subject to all of the above issues at a time when they desperately need access to sanctuary and security.

And this is why you don't run a shelter, I presume.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There is no bill. It is a proposal to grant women's shelters the right to turn away biological males who present as females

So why is the title of this thread and the question in the poll:
Should Women's Homeless Shelters Ban Trans Identified Males?

 

[Estro Felino]

@Shadow Wolf You havent had SRS as I did...so try to respect me as I respect you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With all due respect...I am into males and I'm not ashamed of saying it...what's wrong with that?

I'm into guys as well. Their locker rooms, however, stink. What's wrong with it is saying such a thing as if it could be a generalized statement about trans-women. It's more you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am not equating sex and gender. You are.

Um... No. I understand that just because somebody is born with male sex organs doesn't make them gender identify as male.

I don't believe that trans women are biologically female something which you keep denying because you keep chanting that mantra "transwomen are women" as if it is somehow change that XY into XX.

Again, you just keep confusing gender and biological sex. I never said that trans women are BIOLOGICALLY women. I'm stating that they are women, as in "their gender is female", because that is what they identify as. That's the distinction between biological sex and gender - one is biology, the other is about identification and social/cultural roles. Emphasis mine:

Gender
Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
SOURCE: gender | Definition of gender in English by Oxford Dictionaries


Gender is the state of being male or female in relation to the social and cultural roles that are considered appropriate for men and women.
SOURCE: Gender definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary


Gender
Refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men...

Sex
The different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc
SOURCE: WHO | Glossary of terms and tools

No amount of drugs or hormones or surgery or all the frilly dresses and stereotypical "feminine" behaviors is ever going to change the fact that they are not biological females.

Never said it would, so this is a strawman.

Also, you hilariously started this post with the sentence "I am not equating sex and gender", and then went on to do that very thing for the entire rest of this post.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm into guys as well. Their locker rooms, however, stink. What's wrong with it is saying such a thing as if it could be a generalized statement about trans-women. It's more you.

This is kinda offensive towards males in general...btw I did not mean to generalize. I just said that in Italy , you cannot use a female locker room unless you had SRS

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@Shadow Wolf You havent had SRS as I did.

And? So? I didn't need it to change my gender markers or go out into the world as female. I'm going to get it, but when you keep bringing it up you're giving me ammo for future use.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is kinda offensive towards males in general...btw I did not mean to generalize. I just said that in Italy , you cannot use a female locker room unless you had SRS

If a locker room doesn't stink it's probably not being used.
And you said you don't understand MTFs who don't share your sentiments. I spoke up to say they are not universally shared. You mentioned nothing of Italy in your post.

 

[Estro Felino]

And? So? I didn't need it to change my gender markers or go out into the world as female. I'm going to get it, but when you keep bringing it up you're giving me ammo for future use.

And you vilify me for saying I enjoy being in male locker rooms.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't feel the same. I don't feel the same with most of your posts.

That's belittling me....
Whether you like it or not, we are both MtF

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you vilify me for saying I enjoy being in male locker rooms.

Vilify? Lol. Ive not even called you a skank, whore, ****, or any other such terms of villainy. If disagreement makes you think you are being vilified, you need thicker skin.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's belittling me....
Whether you like it or not, we are both MtF

You need to get over yourself. Saying I dont feel the same is not belittling. And I haven't denied your trans, but you do keep pointing it out to me.

 

[Estro Felino]

Vilify? Lol. Ive not even called you a skank, whore, ****, or any other such terms of villainy. If disagreement makes you think you are being vilified, you need thicker skin.

But it's u who dont want to be friends with me. We could share information, be allies...
I really respect you and I would like to comfort you because I know what you're going through.


God bless you sister

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No amount of drugs or hormones or surgery or all the frilly dresses and stereotypical "feminine" behaviors is ever going to change the fact that they are not biological females.

No amount of drugs or surgeries will give me normal knees. They won't get rid of my anxiety or depression, either. I'll also always be autistic. But treatment helps.

 

[Koldo]

Who is paying the bill in the meantime?

Certainly there are homeless gay men and women that utilize homeless shelters and as such maybe the LGBT community could band together and help support homeless shelters for trans men and women? I'm not buying the whole "if we don't support them they will act out in society" the way I see it people with criminal leanings are going to do it regardless of any law or any support systems.

Everyone should pay for it. That's the cheapest and most effective way.

Do you doubt there is a relationship between how we treat people and the way they treat us back ? Do you really think that nothing we do influences crime rate ? If so, why?

I would bet that no one studying criminology nowadays would buy into the notion that every criminal was born to be a criminal.