Breathe
Hostis humani generis
In the UK, I've seen Sikhs eating pork, lamb and beef. I saw an elderly Sikh man whilst shopping the other day standing in the queue behind me (with a big order of something like 120 items), with 2 packets of ham. Felt bad because I thought he was with another Sikh man who was behind him with a large order until it was too late to let him go first. :cover:So no meat is 'forbidden or discouraged' , outside of the no kosher/hallal IE> Cow, pig, goat etc etc?
Dairy is perfectly acceptable, but eggs are not eaten by Indian vegetarians.I don't eat any meat what so ever, but do eat eggs/dairy a few times a week, as you know I'm sure....
Onions and garlic in Vaiṣṇava because they're rajasic. Mushrooms are tamasic (the worst). It's to do with the guṇas (modes of prakṛti, nature): sattva (pure), rajas (active), and tamas (inertia, impurity). I'm not a Vaiṣṇava, so I don't know too much about it though.Does that extend to all root veg. ,like Jainism, in the Hindu tradition you mentioned or is that JUST onion and garlic?
So while we're on it, tangent... what's behind the no onion-garlic biz?
I'm familiar with it to a degree, but would like to know if you know anything more about it as I haven't really went far and wide to read about it.
It's not for me to question the 'rightness' about the meat sacrifice/eating thing, but I'm interested, do you suppose that comes from staying distinctive as a culture or is there a piece of scripture that talks about 'not sacrificing animals' explicitly?
Śrī Granth Sāhib Jī discusses meat in various ways. It mentions eating meat and hypocrisy quite a bit:
ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
जीअ बधहु सु धरमु करि थापहु अधरमु कहहु कत भाई ॥
Jī▫a baḏẖahu so ḏẖaram kar thāpahu aḏẖram kahhu kaṯ bẖā▫ī.
You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action?
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥੨॥
आपस कउ मुनिवर करि थापहु का कउ कहहु कसाई ॥२॥
Āpas ka▫o munivar kar thāpahu kā ka▫o kahhu kasā▫ī. ||2||
You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||
जीअ बधहु सु धरमु करि थापहु अधरमु कहहु कत भाई ॥
Jī▫a baḏẖahu so ḏẖaram kar thāpahu aḏẖram kahhu kaṯ bẖā▫ī.
You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action?
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥੨॥
आपस कउ मुनिवर करि थापहु का कउ कहहु कसाई ॥२॥
Āpas ka▫o munivar kar thāpahu kā ka▫o kahhu kasā▫ī. ||2||
You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||
-- Śrī Granth Sāhib, p 1103
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥
Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||
ਮੁਲਾਂ ਕਹਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ॥ ਤੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice? The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||
ਪਕਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥੨॥
You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay. The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2||
ਕਿਆ ਉਜੂ ਪਾਕੁ ਕੀਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਧੋਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque? Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3||
ਤੂੰ ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ਪਾਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਤੇ ਚੂਕਾ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੪॥
You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery. Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||
Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||
ਮੁਲਾਂ ਕਹਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ॥ ਤੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice? The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||
ਪਕਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥੨॥
You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay. The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2||
ਕਿਆ ਉਜੂ ਪਾਕੁ ਕੀਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਧੋਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque? Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3||
ਤੂੰ ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ਪਾਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਤੇ ਚੂਕਾ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੪॥
You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery. Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||
-- Śrī Granth Sāhib, p 1350
However, to me, it says more along the lines of hypocrisy is what is most hated, whilst the consumption of meat is somewhat counter-productive to a spiritual life. I interpret the following as meaning we should not preach to others not to eat meat if our hearts are not in the right place:
ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
-- Śrī Granth Sāhib, p 1289
My $0.02.