Sin=natural

[Beta]

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
-1Jhn1:10

Exactly ! But how many people actually know the true definition of sin ? God gives a clear explanation of it in 1Joh.3v4.
Why is it so hard for mankid to understand that and do something about it ?

 

[Beta]

you realize god did not intend for us to have free will, if that were true.
another thing, how were they to know disobedience was wrong?
well that's essentially what this story says...god expected adam and eve to understand what obeying meant. you obey because you understand the consequences, how could adam and eve know what death meant?
and if god were fair, why did he command eve to be a subordinate to adam?

Deut.30v19 God tells man to make a choice - does that not imply 'free will' ?
If you only obey because you understand the consequences what about Infants and children ? You expect them to be first half-burned or half-drowned before they keep away from fire or water ?
Someone else said God was a brilliant communicator so would he not have adequately made his point ? after all the serpent did and man & woman understood and obeyed him before they had any proof of his claim.
Adam (man) was created first and had more knowledge and experience, also was the stronger of the species with the ability to defend and support a Family , a difficult role for a nursing/pregnant woman to carry out in primitive conditions at that time. Different roles that is all. He was never meant to lord it over woman as we still see in many countries today .God always gets blamed for man's negative actions.

 

[waitasec]

Deut.30v19 God tells man to make a choice - does that not imply 'free will' ?

in dueteronomy people understood what death meant, adam and eve didn't.
face it, they were set up to fail. no choice in the matter. free will is what god doesn't want us to have. and again god is telling them what to do, choose life. it's more like manipulation. he even uses their children as leverage. so you think god is a manipulator and you're ok with that ?

If you only obey because you understand the consequences what about Infants and children ? You expect them to be first half-burned or half-drowned before they keep away from fire or water ?

my job as a parent is to protect them from harm, i would never leave them alone near a camp fire or alone near a pool, you wouldn't either, so why would god? this is another indication that this story is an allegory...and a bad one at that.

Someone else said God was a brilliant communicator so would he not have adequately made his point ? after all the serpent did and man & woman understood and obeyed him before they had any proof of his claim.

still doesn't make sense anyway you want to put it.
the tree could have been called glibber glabber to them, do you understand what those two words mean?

Adam (man) was created first and had more knowledge and experience, also was the stronger of the species with the ability to defend and support a Family , a difficult role for a nursing/pregnant woman to carry out in primitive conditions at that time.

this brings up a very interesting point to me, if god knew we would advance and figure out what caused diseases and earthquakes and have severe weather warnings, why did he allow for science to continue to thrive and not cause more confusion among humanity, such as in the tale of the tower of babel? unless god really thought they could build a tower high enough to reach him...

Different roles that is all. He was never meant to lord it over woman as we still see in many countries today .God always gets blamed for man's negative actions.

no humanity gets blamed for negative action due to their justified so-called divine right

 

[Beta]

glibber glabber..........

glibber glabber......

 

[waitasec]

glibber glabber......

if one doesn't have knowledge of what good and evil means
the words are useless unless god explained it to them, that's how us earthlings do it...but instead god held adam and eve accountable for being ignorant...

 

[Beta]

if one doesn't have knowledge of what good and evil means
the words are useless unless god explained it to them, that's how us earthlings do it...but instead god held adam and eve accountable for being ignorant...

Whatever spin you put on it ...they were disobedient.
What is more to the point :
How do modern Adam and Eve respond to the 10 commandments of God ? I know we have 9 more than they had back in Genesis but we also have a lot more knowledge from God. Enough to make us obedient and less ignorant ?

 

[PolyHedral]

Whatever spin you put on it ...they were disobedient.
What is more to the point :
How do modern Adam and Eve respond to the 10 commandments of God ? I know we have 9 more than they had back in Genesis but we also have a lot more knowledge from God. Enough to make us obedient and less ignorant ?

Does the Bible outline a reason for obeying God that is not of His own causing?

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus teaches that everyone has sinned and that is why you need forgiveness

Including Jesus himself, who broke the Golden Rule by doing unto others what he would not like they did unto himself. He whipped the moneychangers before the Temple and caused them financial damages. I wonder if he was reminded of the fact when he was beig whipped by the Romans.

 

[waitasec]

Whatever spin you put on it ...they were disobedient.

there is no spin, disobedience is KNOWING you are doing something against the grain... especially when living under tyrannical conditions.

What is more to the point :
How do modern Adam and Eve respond to the 10 commandments of God ? I know we have 9 more than they had back in Genesis but we also have a lot more knowledge from God. Enough to make us obedient and less ignorant ?

yet he caused confusion among the people to keep them from reaching the heavens?
:areyoucra

 

[Beta]

there is no spin, disobedience is KNOWING you are doing something against the grain... especially when living under tyrannical conditions.

yet he caused confusion among the people to keep them from reaching the heavens?
:areyoucra

And how do you know A&E did not know right from wrong regarding the forbidden tree ?
Anyway man is not living under tyrannical conditions (your words) today so what choice are YOU making ? We should be more concerned with our own affairs as scripture reminds us.
Now why would people want to be in heaven with God if they don't agree with him ? Would YOU let a trouble-maker live with you ??? for eternity ???

 

[PolyHedral]

Now why would people want to be in heaven with God if they don't agree with him ? Would YOU let a trouble-maker live with you ??? for eternity ???

Because disagreeing with you is not a just reason to deny anybody paradise? And the fact that you're thinking "live with you" is a sign you're thinking through what "omnipotent God" implies. Heaven, if He so wished, could be infinite in size, and so many people who hated each other could have their own paradise.

 

[Beta]

Does the Bible outline a reason for obeying God that is not of His own causing?

You either don't know or don't believe that GOD is Creator and as such does things HIS way.
You have opportunity to opt out if you so wish
If YOU were a designer and had plans for something would you ask every person for their opinion ?

 

[PolyHedral]

You either don't know or don't believe that GOD is Creator and as such does things HIS way.
You have opportunity to opt out if you so wish
If YOU were a designer and had plans for something would you ask every person for their opinion ?

Yes. I would be all-powerful, after all.

 

[Beta]

Because disagreeing with you is not a just reason to deny anybody paradise? And the fact that you're thinking "live with you" is a sign you're thinking through what "omnipotent God" implies. Heaven, if He so wished, could be infinite in size, and so many people who hated each other could have their own paradise.

Why would God (who stands for love and peace) perpetuate a hateful situation in heaven if we are already suffering from it on earth ? You think that should be his plan ? :help:

 

[Beta]

Yes. I would be all-powerful, after all.

Yes and so is he and will eventually put a stop to all our human nonsense.

 

[waitasec]

And how do you know A&E did not know right from wrong regarding the forbidden tree ?

cause it's says so...:areyoucra
gen 2:You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.

it's a paradoxical...

Anyway man is not living under tyrannical conditions (your words) today so what choice are YOU making ? We should be more concerned with our own affairs as scripture reminds us.

ah, what about the middle east, what about the freedom to marry your same sex partner? if that's that an indication of how religion condones tyrannical ideals, i don't know what else does.

Now why would people want to be in heaven with God if they don't agree with him ? Would YOU let a trouble-maker live with you ??? for eternity ???

so you would call a skeptic a trouble maker?
being skeptical is a sign of freedom the exact ideal the god of the bible would have you be afraid of.

 

[Danmac]

isn't it just natural to sin<>to get angry, jealous, hate, fornicate,etc????who here has NEVER been angry??or really hated someone,maybe just a little??who here has NEVER sinned?

So what is your point?

 

[Blackheart]

Because disagreeing with you is not a just reason to deny anybody paradise? And the fact that you're thinking "live with you" is a sign you're thinking through what "omnipotent God" implies. Heaven, if He so wished, could be infinite in size, and so many people who hated each other could have their own paradise.

There you go again thinking God should think like you.

 

[Blackheart]

There isn't anything to fall for, because the idea that the serpent could possibly be lying doesn't exist. Eve treats the serpent as acting in good faith, because that's the only available option. The serpent provides an understandable reason, however dubious, for eating the fruit; God provides no reason to obey him other than "You'll die." Since dying is an unknown concept at this point, and so carries almost influence, why is it at all surprising that Eve disobeys?

Sorry but do you really think she didnt know what God meant when he explained the consequences of eating from the tree? Do you really think that she was that stupid? Even if she had never witnessed the death of an insect or the death of a plant surely she would know that death would be the end of what she knew as life. If not do you not think that maybe God or Adam may have explained it to her? Doesnt make sense to me.

 

[waitasec]

Sorry but do you really think she didnt know what God meant when he explained the consequences of eating from the tree? Do you really think that she was that stupid?

it was the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil wasn't it?

this is not a literal story, logical reasoning would point to that assessment...

Even if she had never witnessed the death of an insect or the death of a plant surely she would know that death would be the end of what she knew as life.

surely, how? because you have this knowledge she did too?

If not do you not think that maybe God or Adam may have explained it to her? Doesnt make sense to me.

well lets see here, adam couldn't have explained either...
so if god explained it to her why are we still in the dark?