Slavery

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I am supposed to prove that ancient Christians did not want physical death?
Acts 12:11 shows that Peter, one of the then leaders of the Christians, was happy to be saved from death.

So much for those who wish to save their lives will lose it, huh?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

this is getting personal. BTW talking about people in the same thread is not polite, I think.

Well, saying the things you said that triggered these responses, go waaaay beyond mere "impoliteness" I think.

And that goes for MANY things being said here.
Like @Samantha Rinne who just compared the enslavement of africans in the US with freaking internships - and even implied that the slaves were better off, because they were given a roof over their heads!

 

[Father Heathen]

But there's nothing immoral about child pornography, it's just today's culture, right?

I don't know if you're addressing her or me, but it clearly isn't culturally accepted and is highly illegal. And even if it were, it would still be immoral because it victimizes the innocent, just like rape and slavery (the two things the god of the Bible didn't have the balls to condemn because he prostated himself before primitive, savage cultures.)

 

[Father Heathen]

God has rules about sex that are as applicable today as they were when he first gave them.....he does not change. Marriage is a sanctioned relationship in which sex is always "safe" if one follows God's moral laws.

.....and telling the Bible's truth is not "gay bashing".....its just not something they want to hear....so they don't have to listen.

If god doesn't change, then all of those OT laws are still in effect? Also, the notion that god is beholden to some book written by ancient mortals who were ignorant of the world sounds like blasphemous idolatry to me. I'll pray for you.

 

[Father Heathen]

No, no, no. You repeatedly said that the horrible stuff im the bible wasn't God's will but rather the evil of human culture that god was too scared to challenge, but then later claim it was his will after all? You keep flip-flopping in an attempt to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Father Heathen]

God has rules about sex that are as applicable today as they were when he first gave them.....he does not change. Marriage is a sanctioned relationship in which sex is always "safe" if one follows God's moral laws.

.....and telling the Bible's truth is not "gay bashing".....its just not something they want to hear....so they don't have to listen.

Love between consenting adults = bad?
Rape and slavery = good?

...and we're expected to take that garbage seriously?

I doubt god would give us the ability to reason and the capacity for compassion only for us to forgo them.

 

[Father Heathen]

Slaves do get paid. The closest facsimile of slavery we have today (outside the backwater countries) is called internship. Yet interns usually receive not even room and board, yet these things were a given to black slaves in America.

So you wouldn't object to being kidnapped, beaten, raped, forced labor from sunrise to sundown, and miserable living conditions?
Anyone who tries to defend, excuse, or justify these horrible injustices deserves to be subjected to them.

 

[Father Heathen]

this is getting personal. BTW talking about people in the same thread is not polite, I think.

Slavery/rape apologists are unworthy of respect.

 

[Father Heathen]

And what about Islam? Whenever Islam is criticised, we have people leap to its defense, assuring us that things like terrorism are just part of its culture, and we mustn't hold our Western morality against the different culture of Islam. Did you know that they have slavery today?

Slavery in 21st-century Islamism - Wikipedia
Islam and slavery - Wikipedia

Either morality is the same as culture (in which case, we excuse the West for its failings, as well as Islam) or just because a culture says something is moral doesn't make it moral (in which case, not only should we condemn Islam but the Western response to COVID and isolation of people who refuse to wear masks... hmmm alienation for not wearing facial coverings, where have I heard of that before? Oh right Islam, with its hijab laws). Either we forgive both, or we condemn both.

You cannot hold up one class of people as blameless when they still practice slavery, yet crucify another class who largely abolished slavery and insist they pay reparations.
Why isn’t BLM demanding that Muslims pay reparations for their long and sordid history of enslaving black people, that continues even to this day?

Who here is defending Islam? I despise religious fundamentalism in all of its forms.

 

[Father Heathen]

What do you say to a mind like that, ey.......

I couldn't imagine living life as an automaton, if you can call it living.

 

[thomas t]

Slavery/rape apologists are unworthy of respect.

I'm not a rape/slavery apologist.

 

[thomas t]

Well, saying the things you said that triggered these responses, go waaaay beyond mere "impoliteness" I think.

no, there was nothing impolite in what I said.
The ones getting impolite are responsible for being impolite themselves.
I do not attack anyone here.

BTW I didn't compare slavery to internships, this isn't my apolgetics.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

no, there was nothing impolite in what I said.
The ones getting impolite are responsible for being impolite themselves.
I do not attack anyone here.

BTW I didn't compare slavery to internships, this isn't my apolgetics.

No, you didn't engage in apologetics regarding slavery.
Instead, you merely engaged in apologetics regarding forcing women to marry their rapists.

 

[nPeace]

One can always count on the religious fundamentalists, to defend practices like slavery.

If the slavery is understood from a perspective other than a permanently fixed narrow view.

For example...
The apostle Paul made this expression... "...but through love slave for one another". Galatians 5:13
He explained and demonstrated what that meant.
"For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible. . ." (1 Corinthians 9:19)
Yes, a person can be a willing slave, as was the case, past, present, and will be in the future, as mentioned in the OP.
Jesus too, set the example in willingly serving others. (Matthew 20:28; Philippians 2:7)

Have you ever offered to carry someone's stuff for them; move things for them...
That's commendable. A willingness to slave for others, is actually a good thing.
This is the slavery, that is promoted by God, and his servants. Fundamentalist you call them? If it makes you happy.

I challenge you to become my slave under biblical rules.
Remember that I get to beat you as long as you survive for "a day or two".

I thought you had the narrow view. The meaning of the term fundamentalist is being demonstrated here.
Nowhere in the Bible is that promoted by God.

But you know what? Even if you would agree to it... I couldn't go through with it. My moral compass would eat me alive.

Having a moral compass is good. If however, North is East at times, and then West at others, the compass may as well be left under the bed.
Whether you believe it with all your heart, or think it, your moral compass is not accurate. You can never come even close to the Rock - Perfect is his activity. For all his ways are Justice,
Yup. you are an imperfect being trying to set your own standard. However, I can't fault you if you are trying to do what you think is right. Keep at it. Perhaps one day you will know what is right.

 

[Deeje]

If the slavery is understood from a perspective other than a permanently fixed narrow view.

For example...
The apostle Paul made this expression... "...but through love slave for one another". Galatians 5:13
He explained and demonstrated what that meant.
"For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible. . ." (1 Corinthians 9:19)
Yes, a person can be a willing slave, as was the case, past, present, and will be in the future, as mentioned in the OP.
Jesus too, set the example in willingly serving others. (Matthew 20:28; Philippians 2:7)

Have you ever offered to carry someone's stuff for them; move things for them...
That's commendable. A willingness to slave for others, is actually a good thing.
This is the slavery, that is promoted by God, and his servants. Fundamentalist you call them? If it makes you happy.


I thought you had the narrow view. The meaning of the term fundamentalist is being demonstrated here.
Nowhere in the Bible is that promoted by God.


Having a moral compass is good. If however, North is East at times, and then West at others, the compass may as well be left under the bed.
Whether you believe it with all your heart, or think it, your moral compass is not accurate. You can never come even close to the Rock - Perfect is his activity. For all his ways are Justice,
Yup. you are an imperfect being trying to set your own standard. However, I can't fault you if you are trying to do what you think is right. Keep at it. Perhaps one day you will know what is right.

There is no way to stop those with narrow views and a fixed agenda, from twisting everything we say.....we understand that the godless have their views, based on how their own compass directs them.....and they don’t really care about any viewpoint other than their own....they are welcome to view things in whatever way they like.....but so are we. Free will allows this and we understand that it serves an important purpose.

Some creatures don’t value pearls apparently.........and we can’t make them....nor do we want to. Choices are ours to make.

 

[nPeace]

How would a person go about demonstrating that they did not consent?

Sure. I don't mint helping with Bible reading. That's actually a pleasure to me.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-29)
23 “If a virgin is engaged to a man, and another man happens to meet her in the city and lies down with her, 24 you should bring them both out to the gate of that city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not scream in the city and the man because he humiliated the wife of his fellow man. So you must remove what is evil from your midst. 25 “If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die by himself, 26 and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. 27 For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her. 28 “If a man happens to meet a virgin girl who is not engaged and he seizes her and lies down with her and they are discovered, 29 the man who lay down with her must give the girl’s father 50 silver shekels, and she will become his wife. Because he humiliated her, he will not be allowed to divorce her as long as he lives.

Notice, in verse 23 and 24, the details are given.
They are in the city. The woman's scream was not heard.

Verses 25 to 27 - In the field, the woman's word was taken, and she was spared, but the alleged rapist was put to death... because she screamed, but could not be heard.

In verses 28, and 29, they are discovered. The girl didn't put up much of a fight here, as in the case of the first. However, the difference is that she is not engaged to anyone (technically married), and God is merciful with them, allowing them to marry.
The man did not forcefully rape her, but he took her virginity out of wedlock. He was not allowed to make her a harlot.

How come God never put my rapist to death? Or anyone else's these days?

God was dealing with the nation of Israel directly - "dwelling with them".
Hence, he personally dealt with matters, when he determined it was necessary.

Just as he did not interfere in the affairs of the world's nations (Egyptians, Canaanites, Chaldians, etc.), he does not interfere in the nations of this world. So he allows things as they are.
The time will come when his appointed king Christ Jesus, takes up complete rulership over the entire earth, Then he will deal directly with his nation - on the entire globe.

* Deuteronomy 7:6; 14:2; Leviticus 26:11, 12; Isaiah 65:17; Revelation 21:1-5
This Chapter answers your question in more detail.

We suffer many painful experiences in life. However. these words are a sure, and greatly expected by millions, who make the joy of Jehovah their stronghold.
(Romans 8:18-25) 18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.

We have that sure hope, while we cope.

 

[nPeace]

Leading to the conclusion that the Bible endorses the owing of other human beings as property.
And that, directly from the source of your morality. Congratulations.

Ciao

- viole

I hope your children are (or at least, were) your property. If they are not, you have my sympathy... Sincerely.

 

[tayla]

Eventually, God taught the Israelites the proper view.

If God were good, he would not have waited so long. I refuse to condone slavery just so I can think an ancient text is inerrant.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How come God never put my rapist to death? Or anyone else's these days?

I’m sorry you went through that awful ordeal! So did my aunt.

The reason is....Because men are ruling themselves right now. The issue of sovereignty was raised in Genesis 3 — can mankind make their own choices, or can Jehovah God govern mankind better?

The events are being documented right now. But it seems mankind is pretty lousy at self-governance. The record is abysmal.

The issue will be settled once and for all, soon....God will step in, and all badness will end (Revelation 21:3-4). If the issue of human sovereignty is ever raised again, it won’t have any legitimacy.

And individually, what wicked things happen to us now, will not plague our memory in the future. - Isaiah 65:17b

 

[Deeje]

You wrote:
Homosexuals too have their own issues with disease and the physical effects of unnatural sexual activity.

... this is Jehova Witnesses "truth".

No...its Bible truth.

Romans 1:25-28...
"because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.


28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done." (ESV)

How do you make that say anything else?