So what about hell?

[YoursTrue]

Fun fact - lack of emotion (specifically, the ability to emotionally identify with others; being callous or absent of empathy) is actually one of the major defining characteristics of the psychopath. Whether or not this individual suffered from ASPD I couldn't say, but before jumping on the rationalist emotion blame train this is worth remembering. I knew a psychopath once. They were very much not emotional and very much cold and calculating instead. It was... well, it's a thing some humans can do. I'm less interested in judging than now knowing how to spot those kinds of people and stay the flip away from them.

One time I was asked to be on a jury for a man who killed a student and was told he might be mentally ill. I thought, "I gotta get out of here..." since I do not believe that mental illness excludes someone from being declared guilty & take the consequences given to what?--"normal people"? So I was glad I was not on that jury.

 

[Estro Felino]

I did not say that. To understand the soul, we'd have to have a good discussion of terms used and how they translate and are used. I'll keep it brief and say without going into a longer discussion now that I AM a soul, a living one. To make this clearer, when God created Adam and breathed the "breath of life" into his body, Adam became a "living soul." He was not a living soul before that. Since not all Bibles have the same way of translating from the Hebrew, I'll quote Genesis 2:7 King James Version: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." So just to keep in mind, that the first man BECAME a living soul. There's more, but I'll leave it at that for the moment.

I meant: do you believe in an afterlife, after death?

 

[viole]

In my opinion, if there is no God, there cannot be justice.

justice is relative. It is predicated on a set of laws. Just saying “justice”, without listing the laws, or rules, that are applicable, is sort of meaningless. For, justice might require punishment, but only if it is clear what law has been broken.

therefore, it is equally meaningless to say that without God there cannot be justice, because two different Gods might have different moral laws.

to make an example, if there were a God that sets the law “thou shall eat no Marmite, or thou shall die”, then justice would be send to hell whoever ate Marmite.

Which might sound ok to most people with normal taste , but counterintuitive to British people. And it is therefore relative.

ciao

- viole

 

[Kenny]

I say there is no God, my mate tells me there is a God and his name is Baiame. Which one of us in your opinion is 100% correct?

But one is 100% wrong if the statement "a God and his name is Baiame" is 50% correct.

 

[PureX]

If there is a hell after death, it will be of our own design.

 

[Estro Felino]

If there is a hell after death, it will be of our own design.

Exactly.
There is a 99 year old man in the United States that will be 100 in few months.
He committed the most awful crimes ever, in my opinion.

I don't want him to die. I want him to have a sweet death, while he's asleep.
But his afterlife will be a Hell, because it will be made up of all his crimes.

 

[viole]

Usually people view those who inflict torture on others as bad. And I cannot imagine they are loving to that person.

It is entirely possible that middle age inquisitors who tortured and burned their victims, did it because they believed it was the best for them.

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

If there is a hell after death, it will be of our own design.

Are we sure that Hell is worse than Heaven?

ciao

- viole

 

[John53]

But one is 100% wrong if the statement "a God and his name is Baiame" is 50% correct.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Recent discussions make me wonder what various persons believe about hell (or hellfire). Do you think a loving person would literally torture anyone forever as some would believe about hell (or hellfire)? (also for @Trailblazer )

I will comment on this one as I would comment on the character of Darth Vader (as in: I don't believe it to be real, but I still can form an opinion about it within its own context).


The very idea of a "hell" is immoral, because it gives infinite punishment for finite crimes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How about a short time after death? What does your religion teach you about that?

I'ld say that torture is always immoral.

We don't torture our prisoners either.
In fact, prisoners have many rights and there are rules on how to treat them.

If we hear about other countries where prisoners are tortured (legally), we call those countries barbaric hellholes and consider such treatment violations of human rights. Regardless of who the prisoners are or what their crimes were.

So if there is a god that mandates torture, then we puny humans are morally superior to such a god.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Since when we die, we have no mortal body any more, there's no physical pain.
There can be spiritual suffering.

Is that torture? I don't think so.

Psychological torture is also torture.

 

[YoursTrue]

I meant: do you believe in an afterlife, after death?

I look forward while I am alive to the Bible's promise of a resurrection. That means after death, God can bring a person back from the dead. I hope that helps to explain.

 

[YoursTrue]

justice is relative. It is predicated on a set of laws. Just saying “justice”, without listing the laws, or rules, that are applicable, is sort of meaningless. For, justice might require punishment, but only if it is clear what law has been broken.

therefore, it is equally meaningless to say that without God there cannot be justice, because two different Gods might have different moral laws.

to make an example, if there were a God that sets the law “thou shall eat no Marmite, or thou shall die”, then justice would be send to hell whoever ate Marmite.

Which might sound ok to most people with normal taste , but counterintuitive to British people. And it is therefore relative.

ciao

- viole

By the way, hell in the Bible is not torture. It is equated with death, or the grave.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is entirely possible that middle age inquisitors who tortured and burned their victims, did it because they believed it was the best for them.

ciao

- viole

Hmm I doubt that, but it's possible -- that these vicious people thought it might give their victims a taste of what they erroneously believed their god had in store for these poor creatures. So you could be right.

 

[YoursTrue]

As someone who lives with depression and anxiety, hell is a state of mind. I believe in an afterlife, but it is just a general existence.

What do you mean by a general existence?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The very idea of a "hell" is immoral, because it gives infinite punishment for finite crimes.

The notion of "heaven" as well, in that same vein; eternal reward for living a "holy" life, measuring not even the blink of a cosmic eye on this infinitesimal spec of dust

 

[InChrist]

Recent discussions make me wonder what various persons believe about hell (or hellfire). Do you think a loving person would literally torture anyone forever as some would believe about hell (or hellfire)? (also for @Trailblazer )

Jesus warned about hell and or eternal damnation more than anyone in the scriptures. It is certainly an eternal destiny to be avoided. That is the reason Jesus came to earth and endured the cross, so that no one need suffer eternal torment; self-torment, not torture but a loving God who desires that none perish.


“Those who are "cast into the lake of fire" have just been judged at the "great white throne...according to their works" (Revelation:20:11-12). They must be terrified by the judgment they know they deserve for the sins with which they have been confronted by the One on the throne "from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away...." Every self-justifying excuse has been stripped away, leaving the stark reality of the extreme wickedness of their sin. They will be forever tormented by a conscience that can no longer hide from God or justify itself, and by an eternally burning thirst for the Living Water Christ offered, and which they despised.

They will for eternity mourn the folly of their irrevocable decision. Imagine the pain of such a fire burning in the soul of one in the lake of fire who has in God's presence suddenly met with the full realization of one's eternal state, with the "blood" of Jesus on one's "hands." Would not the burning pain and anguish these souls and spirits will suffer be far worse than physical flames could inflict upon physical bodies?”

Dave Hunt Addresses the 'Fire of Hell' Controversy

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus warned about hell and or eternal damnation more than anyone in the scriptures. It is certainly an eternal destiny to be avoided. That is the reason Jesus came to earth and endured the cross, so that no one need suffer eternal torment; self-torment, not torture but a loving God who desires that none perish.


“Those who are "cast into the lake of fire" have just been judged at the "great white throne...according to their works" (Revelation:20:11-12). They must be terrified by the judgment they know they deserve for the sins with which they have been confronted by the One on the throne "from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away...." Every self-justifying excuse has been stripped away, leaving the stark reality of the extreme wickedness of their sin. They will be forever tormented by a conscience that can no longer hide from God or justify itself, and by an eternally burning thirst for the Living Water Christ offered, and which they despised.

They will for eternity mourn the folly of their irrevocable decision. Imagine the pain of such a fire burning in the soul of one in the lake of fire who has in God's presence suddenly met with the full realization of one's eternal state, with the "blood" of Jesus on one's "hands." Would not the burning pain and anguish these souls and spirits will suffer be far worse than physical flames could inflict upon physical bodies?”

Dave Hunt Addresses the 'Fire of Hell' Controversy

Death is literal, is it not? I mean, you and I haven't died yet in the literal sense, where people go to funerals and so forth, right? We know we're still alive.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I'm now interested to count how many times Jesus mentions "eternal damnation" compared to Paul.