Solution to homosexuals is by government executions according to Pastor.

[samtonga43]

I asked you a reasonable question. You ran away from it. In fact you wanted me to do something where probably would have used a false claim of strawman argument.
Why didn't you answer my reasonable question?

This one...?
"And how would that offend someone?" Leaving you to work it out for yourself is not 'running away'. I am trying to help you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This one...?
"And how would that offend someone?" Leaving you to work it out for yourself is not 'running away'. I am trying to help you.

No you are not.

You far too often falsely accuse others of strawman arguments. That was a question about your claim. It was your burden of proof and you ran away.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lesley is looking beautiful and she knows it. She is attracted to Leslie, and hopes he feels the same about her. She is confused when he suddenly says, "What are your pronouns, Lesley ... She, He, They...?"

To Lesley, this sounds as if Leslie can't tell if she is male or female.

Tell me, Shadow Wolf, can you understand that there really are people who may feel offended by this? (This is the only point I have been making)

You think it's weird.
Lesley thinks it's rude.

You are both entitled to your reactions.

And I get over myself. Why isn't Leslie? It's just something some people do.

 

[samtonga43]

And I get over myself. Why isn't Leslie? It's just something some people do.

Lesley. It makes a difference.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lesley. It makes a difference.

Potatoe/potahto, as far as my question is concerned because you apparently caught my error and knew what I meant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lesley. It makes a difference.

Think of it this way:
Realistically the gendered introduction thing is a subculture thing. Yes, it will likely confuse Lesley unless she's been around thise who use it, or if she knows of it could signal a degree of compatibility or incompatibility based on her views because Leslie, by using it, has announced he has some strings somewhere attached to this subculture (he's probably not trans, so he may have a sibling or close friend who is LGBT, which is a very possible, fairly likely to happen real world scenario).
So, why isn't she just getting over it? Yeah, it probably seems weird to her, but that doesn't make it wrong that he's asking. It's just something that's new to her and it does her no harm to realize what it is and accept it for what it is, and if she doesn't like him she can end it and likely well forget about the whole thing by the time she ends up hearing it again.

 

[JDMS]

That's not 100% accurate or knowable unless you sometimes pry into inappropriate questions you don't ask without being called rude, and it doesn't work 100% of the time when children are born.

Yeah. It's worth noting what your intentions are. How are you using the terms (general "you", not you aha). If someone wants to refer to a group of people in a discussion that involves trans people, such as "should trans folks be allowed in sports" or "how should gynecologists refer to patients", etc. then AFAB/AMAB or "biological male/female" are terms that will likely need to be used at some point.

But as a trans man I would never want someone to call me an "AFAB" or "biological female", or otherwise use that terminology to speak to me or any other individual. Call me a trans man, he/him, whatever. But using the other terms is reductive when you are speaking about individuals. Especially when you have no way of knowing everything about them without asking highly invasive questions.

As for the last part, AMAB and AFAB are not 100% correct, but.... they are pretty accurate, as far as terminology goes. There isn't a better term. Even most intersex folks are given an assigned sex at birth by the doctors and parents. That's where the term comes from.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah. It's worth noting what your intentions are. How are you using the terms (general "you", not you aha). If someone wants to refer to a group of people in a discussion that involves trans people, such as "should trans folks be allowed in sports" or "how should gynecologists refer to patients", etc. then AFAB/AMAB or "biological male/female" are terms that will likely need to be used at some point.

Rubbish, not necessarily so, not really, and it's unneeded unless you make yourself stunted in the lingo of things. Such as, the prefixes cis- and trans- get used WAY more often and frequently and make it needless to bring up the terms you think eventually necessary. They aren't.

 

[JDMS]

Rubbish, not necessarily so, not really, and it's unneeded unless you make yourself stunted in the lingo of things. Such as, the prefixes cis- and trans- get used WAY more often and frequently and make it needless to bring up the terms you think eventually necessary. They aren't.

I don't know why you seem to be so upset. I'm simply sharing terms that the trans community uses I've been in trans spaces for 7 years and have had my go-around. These are commonly accepted and useful terms, when used in the right context. Are you thinking that you know what's better for trans people than most trans people? I'm not trying to cause any offense or upset. I'm just trying to share, as a trans person, in a discussion ABOUT trans people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know why you seem to be so upset. I'm simply sharing terms that the trans community uses I've been in trans spaces for 7 years and have had my go-around. These are commonly accepted and useful terms, when used in the right context. Are you thinking that you know what's better for trans people than most trans people? I'm not trying to cause any offense or upset. I'm just trying to share, as a trans person, in a discussion ABOUT trans people.

They don't have to come up at all.

 

[JDMS]

They don't have to come up at all.

If that's how you want to think about it. I'd love to live in a world where these terms are never used, too, but we don't live in that world.

Anyway. I will continue to let the cis people debate what terminology trans people are apparently allowed to use. I'm tired of cis people controlling the language, whether they are trying to tear us down and be rude, OR be "helpful". It's really not.

 

[samtonga43]

They don't have to come up at all.

Nor does the question, "Which pronouns?"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nor does the question, "Which pronouns?"

Well, sometimes yes because you can't tell.
And, again, that's a subculture thing so I don't see why anyone gets worked up over it.

 

[muichimotsu]

Well, sometimes yes because you can't tell.
And, again, that's a subculture thing so I don't see why anyone gets worked up over it.

Because it's part of one's identity and dignity by association. It's no more ridiculous than asking someone to call you by a preferred name. My brother's given name is not what he goes by, for instance, and I know others who go by their middle name, it's not a big inconvenience and it's not people overreacting to simply ask for that courtesy

 

[samtonga43]

Think of it this way:
Realistically the gendered introduction thing is a subculture thing. Yes, it will likely confuse Lesley unless she's been around thise who use it, or if she knows of it could signal a degree of compatibility or incompatibility based on her views because Leslie, by using it, has announced he has some strings somewhere attached to this subculture (he's probably not trans, so he may have a sibling or close friend who is LGBT, which is a very possible, fairly likely to happen real world scenario).
So, why isn't she just getting over it? Yeah, it probably seems weird to her, but that doesn't make it wrong that he's asking. It's just something that's new to her and it does her no harm to realize what it is and accept it for what it is, and if she doesn't like him she can end it and likely well forget about the whole thing by the time she ends up hearing it again.

Yes, I think it would confuse Lesley, who presents herself as a very attractive woman, and is bemused when she hears this question from Leslie. She thinks about it, and comes to the conclusion that if this guy has to ask if she is ‘her, him, or they’, after they have flirted for an hour or two, then he is really not the man for her.
Leslie chose the wrong person and the wrong time to ask about pronouns. Lesley walked away.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, I think it would confuse Lesley, who presents herself as a very attractive woman, and is bemused when she hears this question from Leslie. She thinks about it, and comes to the conclusion that if this guy has to ask if she is ‘her, him, or they’, after they have flirted for an hour or two, then he is really not the man for her.
Leslie chose the wrong person and the wrong time to ask about pronouns. Lesley walked away.

It's not going to be asked after two hours. That's not how they use it. It's an introduction, not some weird thing to add in way late.

 

[ppp]

Yes, I think it would confuse Lesley, who presents herself as a very attractive woman, and is bemused when she hears this question from Leslie. She thinks about it, and comes to the conclusion that if this guy has to ask if she is ‘her, him, or they’, after they have flirted for an hour or two, then he is really not the man for her.
Leslie chose the wrong person and the wrong time to ask about pronouns. Lesley walked away.

Wow. You really go out of your way to make this difficult. I just had a first date on Thursday and we navigated pronouns, sexuality, practices, family and politics within the first hour. It was fun. And if we had been incompatible we would have gone out separate ways. I am looking forward to talking about our sexual desires and boundaries on our third date next week.

It's just not that difficult.

 

[samtonga43]

It's not going to be asked after two hours. That's not how they use it. It's an introduction, not some weird thing to add in way late.

Sorry, I am obviously misunderstanding. So, after, or while being introduced to Lesley, would Leslie perhaps say something like, "May I ask what your pronouns are?"
?

 

[samtonga43]

Wow. You really go out of your way to make this difficult. I just had a first date on Thursday and we navigated pronouns, sexuality, practices, family and politics within the first hour. It was fun. And if we had been incompatible we would have gone out separate ways. I am looking forward to talking about our sexual desires and boundaries on our third date next week.

It's just not that difficult.

And you did not have to ask the pronouns question?

 

[samtonga43]

You really go out of your way to make this difficult. I just had a first date on Thursday and we navigated pronouns, sexuality, practices, family and politics within the first hour. It was fun. And if we had been incompatible we would have gone out separate ways. I am looking forward to talking about our sexual desires and boundaries on our third date next week.

What did you talk about on your second date?