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Solution to homosexuals is by government executions according to Pastor.

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
So the evidence that homosexual behaviour seems to be common in so many other species would have no impact on this belief? This seemingly making it more natural for whatever reasons, and perhaps down to purely chemical or biological effects - given we are all born as individuals on a spectrum as to all sorts of characteristics, so wouldn't sexual orientation be perhaps one of these?
You know what some people do?
They put two male animals into closed area until it become unbearable for them so they start doing the thing.
They would then post video on Youtube with funny claims.

It's soo pathetic, you don't have to be smart to see that no female was there to at least give the animal a choice which one to quaff.
 

Kharisym

Member
That's not what I'm talking about, see video in post #18

I'm not in a position to watch videos so I'll try to generalize this as much as possible. If you admit that some kinds of pride are okay but excessive pride is not, then we need to assess of being gay is excessively prideful. Based on context I think we're talking about the pride parade, right? To use the concept of excessive pride to deride the pride parade shows a lack of knowledge about the pride parade's history.

The pride parade has an interesting origin, and its name (ie, the pride in it) does as well. The pride parade is a celebration of the stonewall riots which marked the beginning of the modern day gay rights movement. The name 'pride parade' isn't a proclamation of excessive pride, but rather a refutation of the shame gay communities were forced to endure prior to the stonewall riots. The crazy and abnormal dress and activity is essentially a reenactment of people being forced into the streets and shamed when stonewall was raided.

So tl;dr: Its not about excessive pride, its about not being ashamed.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Can you provide evidence to that. Historically, every "rising" civilization was violent. Gengis Khan was neither Christian, Jewish nor Muslim.
Yes but not on such a scale and not as long in its duration.

Most famous would likely be the crusades and the Roman Catholic Churches sheer political power equalling even monarchs of the day.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes but not on such a scale and not as long in its duration.

Most famous would likely be the crusades and the Roman Catholic Churches sheer political power equalling even monarchs of the day.

We don't have all of history recorded. But Mongol Empire ceased because Shiites convinced their rulers to become Shiites, to make a long story short. Middle-eastern countries such as Iraq and Iran would be the Mongolian religion right now if we didn't overtime convert the rulers to take our religion.

When they took over Iraq, the rivers were said to be black by how many books they put in the water.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
You know what some people do?
They put two male animals into closed area until it become unbearable for them so they start doing the thing.
They would then post video on Youtube with funny claims.

It's soo pathetic, you don't have to be smart to see that no female was there to at least give the animal a choice which one to quaff.
Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality? – Yale Scientific Magazine
Homosexuality in Animals: An Analysis of Sexual Behavior Theories (lakeforest.edu)
Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia

You really think that this would be the scientific perspective if the observation was all about captive species? :oops:
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
I know and agree, pride can be in various shades.
The best pride is one when somebody else tells you to be proud of something, not when you're proud on your own.

No one need to tell me to be prideful. That's a recipe for disaster imo.

"8.
Happy is he who wins for himself
fair fame and kindly words;
but uneasy is that which a man doth own
while it lies in another's breast
.

9.
Happy is he who hath in himself
praise and wisdom in life;
for oft doth a man ill counsel get
when 'tis born in another's breast.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes it's fascinating how protestant church has fragmented into million of pieces, yet orthodox and catholic church suffered no fragmentation at all except one in 1054.

All offshoots of the catholic church so the catholic church has fragmented into over 40,000 different sects. All claiming to be christian and all claiming their version of the faith is the true version and all the others are on the road to hell... Truly fascinating.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Is it me, or is there an unusual amount of hate going on in Christianity today?

Not just Christianity. There's Hindus against Muslims in India.

In the USA, though not elsewhere, yes it seems there is. And you know why? Trump.

I've come to the conclusion that Trump is the symptom and the one who expressed the zeitgeist (he won the first time after all). And of course he poured gas on the fire.

I'm hoping his congregation dosent take it to heart and go out to raise mayhem.

Given the number of death threats against gays, Liz Cheney, FBI agents, trans people, I'm not optimistic.

Only weak people are threatened by pride of others.

There's two kinds of pride to me. One kind is the kind the Bible condemns and is the "I'm better than the rest" thought. Another kind is the satisfaction at a job well done.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You cannot take a few examples of extreme free speech and use that to define a group of 1 billion people. This is like throwing out most of the data, so very limited data fits your desired curve. That is not how science works. This is more how propaganda works.

If you look at evolution, it is based on natural selection and sexual reproduction. Natural selection results in the best examples being chosen. While reproduction allows this to become engrained in the DNA. If you were selected, but do not breed, you are not fully part of evolution, since both factors need to be applied.

By its very nature, homosexual is not part of evolution, since this behavior cannot breed itself, into the DNA pool, to make it a part of the permanent evolutionary record. This implies homosexual is not natural; product of natural selection and evolution, but more of a cultural phenomena. It is more connected to will, choice and psychological inductions.

I am not making a value judgement, but this distinction is needed to make sure we approach this in a rational way, not based on genes that are not there, but based on cultural inductions. Homosexuality is connected to a long term cultural systemic affect, that appears to be part of all cultures, but is not fully conscious. This induction tends to produce the same result, generation after generation all over the earth.

My guess is homosexuality is connected to the observation of the strong bonds between mother and son, and father and daughter. Say these bonds were very close, a son's potential wife or a daughter's potential husband may create jealousy in their close parent, if there appears to be an alienation of affection. But if they become part of the other team; homosexuality, there is more security for the parents; remain number 1.

Mothers often make life hard on their son's wife, unless she is with the matriarchs program. But if the son's wife is willful and she has her own agenda, the son will be placed in the middle having to choose, even though he loves and chooses both. The Father and his daughters husband have similar dynamics. From the POV of a son or daughter dating, and getting this treatment, the solution to make peace for all may require playing on the other team; homosexual. The mother is less likely to stand in the way or sense alienation of affection; extra son to love.

After the breakup of the nuclear family, with the father often not present, the mother-son connection would have become stronger, than the father-daughter, due to living arrangements. One would expect a rise in gay inductions to help maintain the bond with a lonely mother without a mate. The daughters will lose their father and become closer to the mother, but have some trust issues with males. Two different affects.

In the Bible, gay behavior is frown upon, but lesbian is not really mentioned. I would attribute this to war and the father not around, leaving behind women and children, so the family break up scenario above plays out. Women remained more like women; Adam, while young men were altered by lonely woman; Eve. This affect also led to recruits for the church; celibacy. It is part of human nature gone astray due to will and choice.
These are some super outdated views on homosexuality. Wow.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
All offshoots of the catholic church so the catholic church has fragmented into over 40,000 different sects. All claiming to be christian and all claiming their version of the faith is the true version and all the others are on the road to hell... Truly fascinating.

That's way over the line. A 20th century development was the nondenominational church for one thing. And there are many interfaith groups where different denominations work together with members of other religions. These are the people who don't make media headlines unless it's local media for some effort to help those who need it.
 

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
tl;dr: Its not about excessive pride, its about not being ashamed.
to not be ashamed, hm..
don't know what to say.

Based on context I think we're talking about the pride parade, right?
no, about pride in general, where excessive pride to be gay falls into.

You really think that this would be the scientific perspective if the observation was all about captive species?
I'm aware of this and AFAIK there is no general concensus among scientists.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
When talking about pride, it would be a good idea to see what Christians actually mean by it. This site sets it out fairly well.

What Makes Pride a Sin?

This extract sums it up.

Everything we have, we have received from God. Therefore, we should not act as if we have accomplished anything on our own. It is not wrong to feel good about something you have accomplished as long as you recognize, and admit, that you could not have done so without him.

For the record, I'm not putting this forward as either agreeing or disagreeing with it. Just saying that it might be a good starting point rather than attributing every common definition of pride to Christian thought.
 

Kharisym

Member
to not be ashamed, hm..
don't know what to say.

no, about pride in general, where excessive pride to be gay falls into.

For those of us who are video impaired, could you give an example of what it means to have excessive pride to be gay?

//segway:
"to not be ashamed, hm.. don't know what to say."
Yeah, gay pride is often misunderstood, but honestly it doesn't have to be understood to achieve its goal. Straight people are not the audience of gay pride, but rather its a message to other gay folk that they should not be ashamed, and to not allow shame to push them back into the closet and back into self-policing for the bigots. Ultimately, shame is a weapon used against minority communities to have them police themselves and socially ingrain the bigoted message, and pride is the armor against that.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
You know what some people do?
They put two male animals into closed area until it become unbearable for them so they start doing the thing.
They would then post video on Youtube with funny claims.

It's soo pathetic, you don't have to be smart to see that no female was there to at least give the animal a choice which one to quaff.

Ever owned dogs? They screw anything

My ex pastor did. She was going on a rant about how gay is unnatural then her male dog walked up to another male dog and started humping them. Even the dog thought that argument was stupid. I can assure you that dog had been around plenty of female dogs but screwed both male and female dogs the same.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
That's way over the line. A 20th century development was the nondenominational church for one thing. And there are many interfaith groups where different denominations work together with members of other religions. These are the people who don't make media headlines unless it's local media for some effort to help those who need it.

The catholic church came first, orthodox split from it, protestantism split from it the vast majority of different sects and cults fragmented from there. Sure interfaith churches are a recent development, something of a tiny minority. And new cults form every week.

There are groups who loath other branches, deny their Christianity, their interpretation of their chosen version of the 200+ different versions of the bible is the only true interpretation. There are those (even on RF) who think their sect is the only true religion and the only one chosen for entry to heaven. My first year on RF (and several of my slapped hands) were earned arguing with such narrow minds.

And it seems, at least one on this thread denies other branches of the faith their Christianity.

Over the line? I dont think so
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
It's My Birthday!
These are some super outdated views on homosexuality. Wow.

As well as psychology.

You cannot take a few examples of extreme free speech and use that to define a group of 1 billion people. This is like throwing out most of the data, so very limited data fits your desired curve. That is not how science works. This is more how propaganda works.

If you look at evolution, it is based on natural selection and sexual reproduction. Natural selection results in the best examples being chosen. While reproduction allows this to become engrained in the DNA. If you were selected, but do not breed, you are not fully part of evolution, since both factors need to be applied.

By its very nature, homosexual is not part of evolution, since this behavior cannot breed itself, into the DNA pool, to make it a part of the permanent evolutionary record. This implies homosexual is not natural; product of natural selection and evolution, but more of a cultural phenomena. It is more connected to will, choice and psychological inductions.

I am not making a value judgement, but this distinction is needed to make sure we approach this in a rational way, not based on genes that are not there, but based on cultural inductions. Homosexuality is connected to a long term cultural systemic affect, that appears to be part of all cultures, but is not fully conscious. This induction tends to produce the same result, generation after generation all over the earth.

My guess is homosexuality is connected to the observation of the strong bonds between mother and son, and father and daughter. Say these bonds were very close, a son's potential wife or a daughter's potential husband may create jealousy in their close parent, if there appears to be an alienation of affection. But if they become part of the other team; homosexuality, there is more security for the parents; remain number 1.

Mothers often make life hard on their son's wife, unless she is with the matriarchs program. But if the son's wife is willful and she has her own agenda, the son will be placed in the middle having to choose, even though he loves and chooses both. The Father and his daughters husband have similar dynamics. From the POV of a son or daughter dating, and getting this treatment, the solution to make peace for all may require playing on the other team; homosexual. The mother is less likely to stand in the way or sense alienation of affection; extra son to love.

After the breakup of the nuclear family, with the father often not present, the mother-son connection would have become stronger, than the father-daughter, due to living arrangements. One would expect a rise in gay inductions to help maintain the bond with a lonely mother without a mate. The daughters will lose their father and become closer to the mother, but have some trust issues with males. Two different affects.

In the Bible, gay behavior is frown upon, but lesbian is not really mentioned. I would attribute this to war and the father not around, leaving behind women and children, so the family break up scenario above plays out. Women remained more like women; Adam, while young men were altered by lonely woman; Eve. This affect also led to recruits for the church; celibacy. It is part of human nature gone astray due to will and choice.

So you can't "take a few examples of extreme free speech and use that to define a group of 1 billion people" but you can make conclusions through misuse (or misunderstanding) of a scientific concept and assumptions based on pop psychology derived from a cultural bias?
 

Kharisym

Member
By its very nature, homosexual is not part of evolution, since this behavior cannot breed itself, into the DNA pool, to make it a part of the permanent evolutionary record. This implies homosexual is not natural; product of natural selection and evolution, but more of a cultural phenomena. It is more connected to will, choice and psychological inductions.

A few points:
1) Something being a positive or negative trait doesn't depend on it being tied to evolution. The manufacture of antibiotics is not a genetic trait, but it is beneficial.

2) Its not true that being gay is not part of evolution by its very nature. If evolution only selected for breeders (not defamatory, just referencing reproductive pairs) then we wouldn't see non-breeding individuals within social communities such as ants (and horses? I think? I don't remember).

3) A proposed theory on how natural selection *can* result in being gay having a fitness advantage is that it provides additional people to support the rearing of children and collection of resources for the breeding group.
 
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