=Something Bad Jesus Did=

[Poisonshady313]

Thief here....Hey Poison...and now we digress to religious choices.
Most people believe as they do...primarily...because of location.
Born into family, community, country...the greater likelihood would be... the coincidence of your birth is that which made you...who...and what you are.

If you had been born in Brazil, there is a 95% chance...likelihood...you would be catholic.

And if I was Barack Obama, I'd be President of the United States... I'm not sure what this has to do with our conversation. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. It's rather irrelevant to the matter of whether the incident with the woman who asked Jesus for help was handled in an inexcusable manner.

I believe as I do... freely.
I am not actually defending any particular faith.

When I read the gospels, I kept the motivation as the desired item, sought.
It is not enough to repeat what you have been told.
Tradition and recital... mean very little.... to the angels.

And this has what to do with anything?

 

[blueman]

Jesus underscored that the gospel was to be delivered first to the Jew and then to the Gentile and used hyperbole to make His point. He saw the depth on the woman's faith by acknowledging a little crumb from the Lord (figurative sense) would yield great power to heal her daughter. It also was designed to teach His followers a lesson in faith.

 

[Thief]

Thief here...thank you Blueman...I see you've been reading this thread.

 

[free spirit]

To ben Masada

So, Jesus came to reform the Jewish religion from a religion with laws to a religion without laws? No wonder! Next time you go to Court, tell the Judge that you belong in a religion without laws. Perhaps he will let you go without a sentence.

You did not understand, let me explain, the law is a tool to keep us holy, right; but if you break it, it becomes you accuser, and no one during his life can keep the law unbroken, for we all have sinned and fall short of the holiness of God. So if your hope of eternal life rests on the law you are doomed to fail. Jesus came to change that, for by fulfilling the law the man Jesus has done all of God's will, so he has reversed what Adam did, and we now have justification of life.
Ben, by receiving his glorified spirit, the Holy Spirit we no longer need the law to guide us, for God is in us to do his good pleasure, therefore true Christians are not lawless, for he is our law, and he will lead us to eternal life, this Jesus whom was crucified.

 

[Ben Masada]

To ben Masada

That's not what he said. Next time you answer, how about actually addressing what is said?

In that case the answer to him should have been Matthew 5:19, when Jesus declared that he came to confirm the laws down to the letter and not to change anything.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus underscored that the gospel was to be delivered first to the Jew and then to the Gentile and used hyperbole to make His point. He saw the depth on the woman's faith by acknowledging a little crumb from the Lord (figurative sense) would yield great power to heal her daughter. It also was designed to teach His followers a lesson in faith.

Why is this that you guys have to try to rewrite your own NT? Jesus did not say that his gospel was first to the Jew and then to the Gentile. He said that his gospel was ONLY to the Jews. Read Matthew 15:24.

 

[Ben Masada]

To ben Masada

You did not understand, let me explain, the law is a tool to keep us holy, right; but if you break it, it becomes you accuser, and no one during his life can keep the law unbroken, for we all have sinned and fall short of the holiness of God. So if your hope of eternal life rests on the law you are doomed to fail. Jesus came to change that, for by fulfilling the law the man Jesus has done all of God's will, so he has reversed what Adam did, and we now have justification of life.
Ben, by receiving his glorified spirit, the Holy Spirit we no longer need the law to guide us, for God is in us to do his good pleasure, therefore true Christians are not lawless, for he is our law, and he will lead us to eternal life, this Jesus whom was crucified.

I am sorry Freespirit, but you are speaking nonsense. The Law was given by the grace of God. So, thanks God we have a Law to know how to behave. If we break the Law, it does not mean we lose it or cannot restore ourselves into observing it.

What talk is that of hope of eternal life resting on the Law? That's a Pauline cop-out to sell his Christology and make the faith of everyone conditional and worthy menstrual rags. Eternal life only God has it. No one else does. Whoever has been born will have to die.

Jesus did not change anything in the Law. Read Matthew 5:19. He confirmed everything down to the letter, and said that if we don't do the same and teach it thus, we won't be worthy the Kingdom of God, or peace within ourselves.

How about the other thousands of Jews who were crucified just like Jesus, their blood doesn't count? Please, have mercy!

 

[sojourner]

In that case the answer to him should have been Matthew 5:19, when Jesus declared that he came to confirm the laws down to the letter and not to change anything.

It's off base...but at least it's an answer.

 

[free spirit]

I am sorry Freespirit, but you are speaking nonsense. The Law was given by the grace of God. So, thanks God we have a Law to know how to behave. If we break the Law, it does not mean we lose it or cannot restore ourselves into observing it.

If you break the law you have to pay a penalty. now what? Or how do you Jews do that?

What talk is that of hope of eternal life resting on the Law? That's a Pauline cop-out to sell his Christology and make the faith of everyone conditional and worthy menstrual rags. Eternal life only God has it. No one else does. Whoever has been born will have to die.

Yes our body will die until the resurrection; but our spirit will not if we have the Holy Spirit in us.

Jesus did not change anything in the Law. Read Matthew 5:19. He confirmed everything down to the letter, and said that if we don't do the same and teach it thus, we won't be worthy the Kingdom of God, or peace within ourselves.

I sympathize with you but John 1 - 16 to 18, has no ambiguity for we read; "For of his fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." Ben you know what the law is; but do you know what grace and truth is?

How about the other thousands of Jews who were crucified just like Jesus, their blood doesn't count? Please, have mercy![/

quote]
The Crucifixion was reserved for harden criminals, and for the enemy of Rome, as far as I know only Jesus was crucified guiltless. Because he claimed to be the Christ a king therefore a self proclaimed king an enemy of Rome, that is what Pilate charged him with. To me he is the Saviour of the world he is Christ and King.

 

[free spirit]

In that case the answer to him should have been Matthew 5:19, when Jesus declared that he came to confirm the laws down to the letter and not to change anything.

Yes Matthew 5 - 19, is clear, but you know that no man can keep the law, so the alternative is to change men character, and that is exactly what the Holy Spirit has come to do. As you know we sin because our human spirit is not holy. In ACTS 2 - 32 to 39, Peter was speaking to Jews, and he said; " This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says; "The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet. Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified. Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, brethren, what shall we do? and Peter said to them, " Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to himself."

 

[Ben Sinai]

Why is this that you guys have to try to rewrite your own NT? Jesus did not say that his gospel was first to the Jew and then to the Gentile. He said that his gospel was ONLY to the Jews. Read Matthew 15:24.

Here we go again.

I don't believe Blueman said that Yahshua said it but he definitely followed through with it.

1st -

Mat 10:5 These twelve Yahshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra'el.
Mat 10:7 As you go, proclaim, `The Kingdom of Heaven is near,'
Mat 10:8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara'at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment.
　
2nd -
　
Mat 28:16 So the eleven talmidim went to the hill in the Galil where Yahshua had told them to go.
Mat 28:17 When they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him; but some hesitated.
Mat 28:18 Yahshua came and talked with them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son,
Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age."

1st to the Hebrew.

2nd to the world.

 

[free spirit]

Here we go again.

I don't believe Blueman said that Yahshua said it but he definitely followed through with it.

1st -

Mat 10:5 These twelve Yahshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra'el.
Mat 10:7 As you go, proclaim, `The Kingdom of Heaven is near,'
Mat 10:8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara'at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment.
　
2nd -
　
Mat 28:16 So the eleven talmidim went to the hill in the Galil where Yahshua had told them to go.
Mat 28:17 When they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him; but some hesitated.
Mat 28:18 Yahshua came and talked with them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son,
Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age."

1st to the Hebrew.

2nd to the world.

:clap
Yes but why do you use non English words to express yourself?

 

[Ben Sinai]

:clap
Yes but why do you use non English words to express yourself?

Why? Does it in some way offend you?

 

[Thief]

Thief here....
Let's consider a possibility....
Some of us believe in life after death...and we will have the opportunity to see the prophets that went before us.

If you really think Jesus did a bad thing...you will have the occasion to tell Him so...to His face.

I wonder how that will go?

 

[free spirit]

Why? Does it in some way offend you?

No, but if We all mix our other languages it would be incomprehensible and it is a matter of courtesy, to whom you speak.

 

[Ben Sinai]

No, but if We all mix our other languages it would be incomprehensible and it is a matter of courtesy, to whom you speak.

I am pretty sure that the ones that I speak to understand completely and as my earthly father told me so many years ago about those things I didn't understand....

"Look it up!!!!"

Learning something new, that is actually old, might open your eyes.

The Hebrew meaning of certain words as well as names hold meanings that are lost in translation as well as those certain words and names that the greek or english use for their translations have paganistic origens. I choose not to use them. I'm not perfect and do slip from time to time but I do really try not to use, or do, those things that Yah said not to do to him as those did to their pagan deity's.

You know I am now going to have to apologise to the "OP" here for going into detail about something that has nothing whatsoever to do with the "OP". If you would like to further this conversation on why I do what I do then by all means please PM me and we will continue.

Sorry "OP"

 

[free spirit]

I am pretty sure that the ones that I speak to understand completely and as my earthly father told me so many years ago about those things I didn't understand....

"Look it up!!!!"

Learning something new, that is actually old, might open your eyes.

The Hebrew meaning of certain words as well as names hold meanings that are lost in translation as well as those certain words and names that the greek or english use for their translations have paganistic origens. I choose not to use them. I'm not perfect and do slip from time to time but I do really try not to use, or do, those things that Yah said not to do to him as those did to their pagan deity's.

You know I am now going to have to apologise to the "OP" here for going into detail about something that has nothing whatsoever to do with the "OP". If you would like to further this conversation on why I do what I do then by all means please PM me and we will continue.

Sorry "OP"

Your answer is sufficient, thank you.

 

[Ben Masada]

Here we go again.

I don't believe Blueman said that Yahshua said it but he definitely followed through with it.

You believe only what you want to believe and not because it is true.


1st -

Mat 10:5 These twelve Yahshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra'el.


I am reading from the New American version of the Bible. Saint Joseph's edition. It says ONLY. But to go RATHER to the Jews, means pretty much the same.


Mat 10:7 As you go, proclaim, `The Kingdom of Heaven is near,'
Mat 10:8 heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those afflicted with tzara'at, expel demons. You have received without paying, so give without asking payment.


This is not Jewish, therefore, not true. Jews don't believe in demons. Jesus was a Jew.
　
Mat 28:19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son,


This is not from Jesus but Pauline, who was the first one to paptize in the name of Jesus. Read Acts 19:5.

 

[Ben Masada]

If you break the law you have to pay a penalty. now what? Or how do you Jews do that?

Now, you pay the penalty! That's the law of cause and effect. You break the Law, you suffer the effects of having broken the Law. As simple as that. How do we do that? By retribution, repentance and back to obedience. Read Isaiah 1:18,19. That's the only way to set things right with God.

Yes our body will die until the resurrection; but our spirit will not if we have the Holy Spirit in us.

Great! Keep waiting for your utopia.

I sympathize with you but John 1 - 16 to 18, has no ambiguity for we read; "For of his fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."

This is Pauline rhetoric of Replacement Theology.

Ben you know what the law is; but do you know what grace and truth is?

I do but you don't. Therefore, read Psalm 119 and you will.

The Crucifixion was reserved for harden criminals, and for the enemy of Rome, as far as I know only Jesus was crucified guiltless. Because he claimed to be the Christ a king therefore a self proclaimed king an enemy of Rome, that is what Pilate charged him with. To me he is the Saviour of the world he is Christ and King.

Have you thought about what you wrote above? That for you Jesus is saviour but that he was crucified for having proclaimed himself king; therefore a enemy of Rome and for this he was charged by Pilate. And then, that he was crucified guiltless. How could he be guiltless if he declared himself king and an enemy of Rome? Sorry, but you got lost in your own trap.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes Matthew 5 - 19, is clear, but you know that no man can keep the law, so the alternative is to change men character, and that is exactly what the Holy Spirit has come to do.

God knows that we are not perfect. To break the Law is human. To reject the Law is insurrection. The problem is not with breaking the Law, but with rejecting the Law.

As you know we sin because our human spirit is not holy. In ACTS 2 - 32 to 39, Peter was speaking to Jews, and he said;

Right! A Gentile speaking to the Jews. Read Acts 2:14. A Jew would never intruduce himself like that to a Jewish audience. That was Luke who wrote that speech and nobody ever delivered it. It was written only to document the Church.

" This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth this which you both see and hear.

What kind of witness, an eyewitness? Mention to me an eyewitness to the resurrection of Jesus if you can.

For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says; "The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet.

Many Psalms were written to be chanted in the Temple by the choir of Levites. Especially David's Psalms. Then, Psalm 110 was one of them. That Psalm was originally written by David thus: "The Lord said to me, sit at my... " It would be awkward for the Levites to sing, "The Lord said to me..." Therefore, an alteration was in order, and that Psalm came out to be: "The Lord (God) said to my Lord (David), sit at my right hand..." Nothing at all to do with Jesus but through assumptions, as a result of lack of logical thinking.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified.

That's another evidence that Peter could have never delivered that speech. Peter was a Nazarene Jew and not an anti-Semite to falsely accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus, when he knew that the Romans did it and not the Jews. In fact, the late Pope John 23rd asked publicly that the Jewish People forgive Christianity for this 2,000 years old false accusation. If a Pope acknowledged such a thing, it's because the NT has failed.