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=Something Bad Jesus Did=

free spirit

Well-Known Member
The "Word of God" was very fluid until the canon was finally closed in the 5th century. Our spiritual needs do change as we change, and our cognitive needs change even faster.
Yes the Word of God war fluid and while it was fluid the enemy of Christ introduced stumbling blocks. to hinder the believer.
I rather suspect that what was "put in your heart" came through some source other than "direct from God. Only prophets can claim that distinction.
I have included an example of my understanding I welcom your comment.

And humans invented the Bible.
Possibly for God doesn't need one.
(VII) Throughout the ages many pagan religions adopted various forms of sacrifice to appease God. Some even went to the extreme repugnance of offering human sacrifice, like virgins or infants whose body was unblemished.

The Jews however offered animal sacrifices not to appease God as it were, but to make atonement for their sins; in other words, by their faith in a promise given to them by God, they covered their sins for a time with a substitute life “blood” of an unblemished animal, until those who believed in the promise of the coming messiah would-be redeemed by the unblemished sacrifice of the Christ.

Christianity therefore was born through the sacrifice of the unblemished life of the messiah, his unblemished life and eventual sinless death was necessary, for in so doing he fulfilled the law of God, hence enabling him to do three wonderful things for the world, which are: 1st Reverse what Adam did,and Give justification of life to all of humanity, 2nd Forgive the sins of past, present and future faithful generations, and 3rd Give the gift of his grace to those who would believe and receive the Holy Spirit.

However, some of those who receive the gift of his grace have been invited to grow and mature in that gift, for we read in Luke 9 – 23, “And he was saying to them all, if anyone wishes to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.” But somehow that invitation to deny one-self is tested by the strength of his or her personal faith, for we must keep present that it is not compulsory to literally follow in his footsteps, for it is written: “If anyone wishes to come after me” and that statement is just, because we are all individuals whose personality and strength differ in many ways. In other words, it is compulsory to “love your neighbour like yourself,” which is the basic requirement if we truly like to be Christians. And then if anyone wishes there is the devotional sacrifice to go after him.

This devotional sacrifice of worship to God is an exceptional way of self-denial with which we get closer to our Lord for we read in 1st Corinthians 7 – 32 to 38, “But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and his interests are divided.
34 And the woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35 And this I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is seemly, and to secure undivided devotion to the Lord.

36 But if any man thinks that he is acting unbecomingly towards his celibacy, if he should be of full age, and if it must be so, let him do what he wishes, he does not sin; let him marry.
37 But he who stand firm in his heart, being under no constraint, but has authority over his own body, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own body chaste, he will do well.
38 So then both he who gives his own body in marriage does well, and he who does not give himself in marriage will do better.”

As you can see the last three verses 36 – 37 – 38, with the inserted Italics are the obvious restorations needed, which enable us to understand the true and intended meaning of the previous verses 32 – 33 – 34 – 35, because if any person male or female is willingly prepared and able to freely undertake the sacrifice of celibacy as their sacrifice of worship, that sacrifice is acceptable to God, for we read in Matthew 19 – 10 to 12, “The disciples said to him, if the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this let him accept it.”

And Romans 12 – 1, also urges us to keep our body holy by saying, “I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.”

We should be able to accept the above restorations after we have investigated the facts for ourselves and become fully convinced that today’s bibles description of the above three verses were undeniably distorted. So, let us read from the “New American Standard Bible” the three verses in question of 1st Corinthians 7 – 36 – 37 – 38, (“But if any man thinks that he is acting unbecomingly toward his virgin daughter, if she should be of full age, and if it must be so, let him do what he wishes, he does not sin; let her marry,
37 - but he who stands firm in his heart, being under no constraint, but has authority over his own will, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own virgin daughter, he will do well.
38 - so then both he who gives his own virgin daughter in marriage does well, and he who does not give her in marriage will do better.”)

(Certainly other Bibles translations of the above three verses are a little different, in some Bibles even the inserted italics are different; but it is obvious to me that in them also the ambiguities still remains in place). Furthermore, any reasonable person is able to see that those three verses are confusing to say the least. Also these verses are openly in opposition to the freedom given to us by Christ, for we all know that fathers have control of their daughter’s life only for a short time, anyhow what would be the purpose of her forced celibacy? It would be reasonable to think from reading the above scriptures that the father is offering the daughter’s celibacy as a sacrifice, for his own perceived benefit.
Needless to say that for that obvious reason alone, the sacrifice is unacceptable to God.

What's more I have found that, the Pagan Roman religion did have virgin females (vestali), which were pledged to celibacy until thirty years of age, and were under penalty of death if they strayed. They were offered (maybe by their fathers) and dedicated for service to the state, for keeping burning the perennial fire of the temple and were entrusted to safeguard important government documents and records, like the last will and testament of the head of state, and to maintain and or assist him in the temple’s ceremonial function, for the head of the Roman state was also head of religion.

It stands to reason that these verses of 1st Corinthians 7 – 36 – 37 – 38, to make any sense in the life of the faithful, should be read in context with the preceding four verses as they are presented above. In which the subject-matter is exposed and become relevant to the lives of the believers, so that those faithful who are able, can freely and confidently choose celibacy as a spiritual sacrifice of worship to our God.
Nevertheless, if any one after committing to the “devotional sacrifice” realise that, the sacrifice of celibacy is too difficult for him to honestly fulfil, in such case he can stop trying and get married with God’s blessing.




Glory to God
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes the Word of God war fluid and while it was fluid the enemy of Christ introduced stumbling blocks. to hinder the believer.
Not so. I suspect it is, rather, the solidity and unswerving attributes in which we have imprisoned the texts that allows for stumbling blocks, since the texts were never meant to be enshrined under glass.
I have included an example of my understanding I welcom your comment.
Where did that understanding come from (Please don't say "direct from God!")
 

free spirit

Well-Known Member
Not so. I suspect it is, rather, the solidity and unswerving attributes in which we have imprisoned the texts that allows for stumbling blocks, since the texts were never meant to be enshrined under glass.

Where did that understanding come from (Please don't say "direct from God!")

You do not give me any choice; would it be acceptable if I say that my understanding comes from the Pope, or Billy Graham.
Seriously now that is the way I understand it, if it is correct it is from God; but if it is not correct it is from my fleshly mind. Remember our God is a God of order, and the Devil loves confusion.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You do not give me any choice; would it be acceptable if I say that my understanding comes from the Pope, or Billy Graham.
Seriously now that is the way I understand it, if it is correct it is from God; but if it is not correct it is from my fleshly mind. Remember our God is a God of order, and the Devil loves confusion.
I suppose that entrapping otherwise fluid texts and making them "tamper proof" for the better part of 2000 years renders them, somehow less confusing. Honestly, the most accessible transcription of the Bible I've found in a long time is Peterson's The Message.
 

free spirit

Well-Known Member
I suppose that entrapping otherwise fluid texts and making them "tamper proof" for the better part of 2000 years renders them, somehow less confusing. Honestly, the most accessible transcription of the Bible I've found in a long time is Peterson's The Message.

I have "The Message" by Eugene H. Peterson and I am sorry to say that some times he get close to the truth but other times he makes the false even worse. The lack of verse numbers is closer to the originals but it is an added difficulty for the scholar, I guess it will make the quoting out of context more difficult.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I have "The Message" by Eugene H. Peterson and I am sorry to say that some times he get close to the truth but other times he makes the false even worse. The lack of verse numbers is closer to the originals but it is an added difficulty for the scholar, I guess it will make the quoting out of context more difficult.
When we solidify the texts, it takes away the texts' inherent polyvalency.
The Bible has lasted, not because it is true, but because it is polyvalent.
 

free spirit

Well-Known Member
When we solidify the texts, it takes away the texts' inherent polyvalency.
The Bible has lasted, not because it is true, but because it is polyvalent.
The truth, the whale truth is one, it cannot be elusive.
you do worry me, why do you say it is not true, for if it was not true it would have no value, let alone many value as you say.
 
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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
No Ben, no antisemitism here, for all human beens are my potential brothers and sisters; if what I say offends you then I am sorry, for I have to learn yet how to tell the truth without offending, We all know that the truth can be cruel, if you can show me a way that tells the truth without compromising the truth I like to know about it.


First and foremost, you need to know what is the Truth and then where is the Truth to be found. According to Jesus in John 17:17
the Truth is the Word of God. Now, if you read Psalm 147:19,20, the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Then, and only then, you might be able to learn a thing or two if you stop pride from speaking louder than commonsense by doing what Isaiah says in 2:3 and approach Zion, which is the Jewish People, whenever you need instruction in the Word of God.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
TO
Ben Masada

You have asked me "What is truth" Pilate also asked Jesus the same question, which was answered without been seen to be answered so relax and enjoy.


WHAT IS TRUTH?



First and foremost, you need to know what is the Truth and then where is the Truth to be found. According to Jesus in John 17:17
the Truth is the Word of God. Now, if you read Psalm 147:19,20, the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Then, and only then, you might be able to learn a thing or two if you stop pride from speaking louder than commonsense by doing what Isaiah says in 2:3 and approach Zion, which is the Jewish People, whenever you need instruction in the Word of God.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
]

Yes Ben in the New Testament there is the suggestion of the end times, the beginning of that is when the Holy Spirit is removed from among the people, so the evil one has no hindrance to his plans and can lead the people to do wicked things. for we read in
2ND. THESSALONIANS 2
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him,
2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of his mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of his coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power ands signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be SANCTIFIED.
11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false,
12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.


If by evil one, you are referring to Satan, save your breath. I prefer to talk about real things and not Pauline idle tales. What leads man to do evil things is man himself. We have freewill. How could we be punished for our wrongdoings
if we have to blame someone or something else?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The truth, the whale truth is one, it cannot be elusive.
you do worry me, why do you say it is not true, for if it was not true it would have no value, let alone many value as you say.
I didn't say it wasn't true. I said that it hasn't lasted because it is true. It has lasted because of its polyvalency.

The whole truth is elusive to the human mind. We can only know in part. that's why the Bible's polyvalency is so important.
 

free spirit

Well-Known Member
First and foremost, you need to know what is the Truth and then where is the Truth to be found. According to Jesus in John 17:17
the Truth is the Word of God. Now, if you read Psalm 147:19,20, the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Then, and only then, you might be able to learn a thing or two if you stop pride from speaking louder than commonsense by doing what Isaiah says in 2:3 and approach Zion, which is the Jewish People, whenever you need instruction in the Word of God.
As I said to you in a previous post you are still living in the days of john the baptist; you should realize that 2000 years have past sense then, for the word is no longer in God's mouth or written on a book, but the word of God did became flesh, and while the word of God was in the flesh religious people killed him for they did not understand him.
We read in John 1: 1 to 5, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. all things came into being bu Him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. in Him was life, and the life was the light of men. and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." verse 14 "And the word became flesh, and swelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the father, full of grace and truth,"
Ben until you accept what has taken place you also will not comprehend. there is nothing more true then a state of holiness.
Because, if we have been sanctified completely, in other words “if we are dead to sin and sin is death to us” the love that God holds for the human race has become our own, and we have become partners with his son Jesus Christ to spread among men the gospel of salvation.

Because “Truth” in God’s eyes is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, therefore, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that“Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness, the essence of God to which we by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ have become partakers.

In John 14 – 6, Jesus said, “I am the ‘Way’, the ‘Truth’, and the ‘Life’; no one comes to the father, but through me”. Yes!
He is the “Way” because we must follow the footsteps of his earthly life = repentance
He is the “Truth” because he is the embodiment of unchanging holiness = God
He is also the “Life” because he is the eternal Word = life
 
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free spirit

Well-Known Member
I didn't say it wasn't true. I said that it hasn't lasted because it is true. It has lasted because of its polyvalency.

The whole truth is elusive to the human mind. We can only know in part. that's why the Bible's polyvalency is so important.
Thank you for the clarification, you have restored my confidence in you.
read my post 332 to Ben Masada, there I have written what I consider to be the truth of the truth, if you know what I mean.
 
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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
As I said to you in a previous post you are still living in the days of john the baptist; you should realize that 2000 years have past sense then, for the word is no longer in God's mouth or written on a book, but the word of God did became flesh, and while the word of God was in the flesh religious people killed him for they did not understand him.

Yes, the Word of God did become flesh, but in the flesh of a People and not in the flesh of an individual. If thinking about the People pushes me to the time of John the Baptist, thinking of an individual as son of God pushes you to the Olympian Pantheon of mythological demigods of Greece. (Psalm 147:19,20)

We read in John 1: 1 to 5, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. all things came into being bu Him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. in Him was life, and the life was the light of men. and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." verse 14 "And the word became flesh, and swelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the father, full of grace and truth,"

This quotation above is what a Hellenist Gentile wrote in the fourth gospel. Now, try to compare this with Isaiah 44:24. "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, Who formed you from the womb; I am the Lord Who made all things, Who ALONE stretched out the heavens; when I spread out the earth, who was with Me?" That's what I call solid Scripture

Ben until you accept what has taken place you also will not comprehend. there is nothing more true then a state of holiness.

What makes you think I don't have that? And I do without the help of Greek Mythology.

Because, if we have been sanctified completely, in other words “if we are dead to sin and sin is death to us” the love that God holds for the human race has become our own, and we have become partners with his son Jesus Christ to spread among men the gospel of salvation.

"Dead to sin!" Please, stop the cop-out! You might impress but only those who don't have a mind of their own. There is no one who lives on this earth, who can say that he or she is dead to sin.

Because “Truth” in God’s eyes is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, therefore, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that“Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness, the essence of God to which we by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ have become partakers.

What is the Truth? Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God, which the Psalmist said, it is light in the path of man. (John 17:17; Psalm 119:105) Then, speaking to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) If you can't take from me, take it from Jesus that we are the Word of God made flesh to keep God in the world as Immanuel. (Isa. 8:8)

In John 14 – 6, Jesus said, “I am the ‘Way’, the ‘Truth’, and the ‘Life’; no one comes to the father, but through me”. Yes!
He is the “Way” because we must follow the footsteps of his earthly life = repentance
He is the “Truth” because he is the embodiment of unchanging holiness = God
He is also the “Life” because he is the eternal Word = life

Jesus spoke as a representative of the People he belonged to. Yes, the Jewish People is the way, because when the nations need instruction in the Word of God, the address is Zion, according to Isaiah 2:3.

Israel is the Truth because God's glory is shown through Israel. (Isa. 44:23; 46:13; Ezek. 20:41)

Israel is also the life, because as long as Israel is kept in existence as a People before the Lord forever, life will remain with Mankind. (Jer. 31:35-37)

Please, check the quotations I put up above. I like to document what I say.
 
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free spirit

Well-Known Member
As I said to you in a previous post you are still living in the days of john the baptist; you should realize that 2000 years have past sense then, for the word is no longer in God's mouth or written on a book, but the word of God did became flesh, and while the word of God was in the flesh religious people killed him for they did not understand him.

Yes, the Word of God did become flesh, but in the flesh of a People and not in the flesh of an individual. If thinking about the People pushes me to the time of John the Baptist, thinking of an individual as son of God pushes you to the Olympian Pantheon of mythological demigods of Greece. (Psalm 147:19,20)
Yes Ben you are correct, but to achieve that unity among people God has put in their heart the same spirit, and that spirit is Christ.

We read in John 1: 1 to 5, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. all things came into being bu Him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. in Him was life, and the life was the light of men. and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." verse 14 "And the word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the father, full of grace and truth,"

This quotation above is what a Hellenist Gentile wrote in the fourth gospel. Now, try to compare this with Isaiah 44:24. "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, Who formed you from the womb; I am the Lord Who made all things, Who ALONE stretched out the heavens; when I spread out the earth, who was with Me?" That's what I call solid Scripture
Yes Ben You are correct, The redeemer whom payed the price for my salvation is Jesus Christ.

Ben until you accept what has taken place you also will not comprehend. there is nothing more true then a state of holiness.

What makes you think I don't have that? And I do without the help of Greek Mythology.
I know that I have holiness as a gift, so if you say that you have it also we should be in agreement, as we are not, one of us has been deceived.

Because, if we have been sanctified completely, in other words “if we are dead to sin and sin is death to us” the love that God holds for the human race has become our own, and we have become partners with his son Jesus Christ to spread among men the gospel of salvation.

"Dead to sin!" Please, stop the cop-out! You might impress but only those who don't have a mind of their own. There is no one who lives on this earth, who can say that he or she is dead to sin.
Yes Ben "Dead to sin" for what value has holiness if you are not dead to sin? colossians 2: 9 to 12, "For in him all the fulness of deity dwells in bodily form, and in him you have been made complit, and he is the head over all rule and authority; and in him you were also cicumcise with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the power of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead."

Because “Truth” in God’s eyes is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, therefore, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that“Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness, the essence of God to which we by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ have become partakers.

What is the Truth? Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God, which the Psalmist said, it is light in the path of man. (John 17:17; Psalm 119:105) Then, speaking to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) If you can't take from me, take it from Jesus that we are the Word of God made flesh to keep God in the world as Immanuel. (Isa. 8:8)
Yes Ben Jesus was speaking to a crowd of Jews who believed in him; if you want to be numbered among them you will have to believe in him also, do you?

In John 14 – 6, Jesus said, “I am the ‘Way’, the ‘Truth’, and the ‘Life’; no one comes to the father, but through me”. Yes!
He is the “Way” because we must follow the footsteps of his earthly life = repentance
He is the “Truth” because he is the embodiment of unchanging holiness = God
He is also the “Life” because he is the eternal Word = life

Jesus spoke as a representative of the People he belonged to. Yes, the Jewish People is the way, because when the nations need instruction in the Word of God, the address is Zion, according to Isaiah 2:3.
Yes Ben, but the way is one, the Jews have divided opinions which is the way to follow, also Christianity have divided opinions of the way, but the true way is looking at us in the face all the time, he does not change we can walk his way fully assured.

Israel is the Truth because God's glory is shown through Israel. (Isa. 44:23; 46:13; Ezek. 20:41)
Yes Ben but you forget that when God speaks of Israel in general terms he is speaking of those who worship him in Spirit and truth. (or in the spirit of holiness, that is Christ's Spirit.)

Israel is also the life, because as long as Israel is kept in existence as a People before the Lord forever, life will remain with Mankind. (Jer. 31:35-37)
Life is eternal and it belong to God.

Please, check the quotations I put up above. I like to document what I say.
Yes I have done that, we are speaking the same language but we are 2000 years apart.
 
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free spirit

Well-Known Member
Yes, we are 2000 years apart. The difference is that I am of the same Faith of Jesus who was 2000 years ago. Your faith has suffered so much change from the purity of the origin that you live today in the middle of a babel of strange beliefs.

If you are of the same faith as Jesus then you would know that he came to reform the Jewish religion for he said in Matthew 5: 38 to 48, "you have heard that it was said, 'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth,' but I say to you, do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. and if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. and whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two. give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. you have heard that it was said, " you shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' but I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, in order that you may be sons of your father who is in heaven; for he causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and send rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. for if you love those who love you, what reward have you? do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? do not even the gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."
So Ben has your religion changed any of the above and included the new laws in the Torah. Do not be deceived by the many so called Christian religions for they are all in error, because the TRUTH as i said is HOLINESS, and he does not change nor can be changed.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
If you are of the same faith as Jesus then you would know that he came to reform the Jewish religion

Well, that's exactly what he did not say. Read Matthew 5:19. He confirmed every commandment of the Law down to the letter, and even down to the dot of the letter. And added that we should do the same and teach just like that or we will have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven.

for he said in Matthew 5: 38 to 48, "you have heard that it was said, 'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth,' but I say to you, do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

That's something he never did. When the guard slapped him for his answer to Anas the old High Priest, instead of giving the other cheek, he demanded an explanation why the guy had slapped him.

and if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. and whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two. give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

The meaning of this is to be forgiving. Neither Jesus nor the other Jews were that masochists.

you have heard that it was said, " you shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' but I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, in order that you may be sons of your father who is in heaven;

Where is it said, to hate your enemy? Where is it said to love your enemies? You guys must be kidding!

for he causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and send rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. for if you love those who love you, what reward have you? do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? do not even the gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."

Give me an example of one who does that, you? Not even Jesus.

So Ben has your religion changed any of the above and included the new laws in the Torah. Do not be deceived by the many so called Christian religions for they are all in error, because the TRUTH as i said is HOLINESS, and he does not change nor can be changed.

All the other Christian religions are in error. Only yours is not. That's pathetic and you guys never fail. Anyone else of another religion will say the same thing about yours. That yours is in erron and his or hers is the only one which is not. I have heard this many times before.

BTW, to answer your question if my religion has changed, the answer is no because Jesus said that if we change anything we will lose the Kingdom of Heaven. What's your opinion about these words of Jesus?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here...you mention slapping another face...turning the other cheek.

You know not what you say.

When you offer your other cheek...this is NOT a passive response.
Having struck once your opponent is unlikely to hesitate.
When you offer your other cheek...you should do so as you look him in the eye.
You should be prepared to defend yourself.

In recent days...I found it needful to slap my son's face.
My discussion had failed...my argument had failed...my hand failed.
He was not given the opportunity to turn the other cheek.
I took it.

He had made a decision that will probably cost him his life.
I was desperate to change his mind.

We struggled for a moment....but I had already lost.
He had made up his mind....days before.

We have parted company under sorrowful terms.

It is unlikely I will ever see my son again.
His decision was poor...his reason shallow....he might die for such things.

Perhaps it would have been better to have withheld my hand.
 
Last edited:

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Thief here...you mention slapping another face...turning the other cheek.

You know not what you say.

When you offer your other cheek...this is NOT a passive response.
Having struck once your opponent is unlikely to hesitate.
When you offer your other cheek...you should do so as you look him in the eye.
You should be prepared to defend yourself.

In recent days...I found it needful to slap my son's face.
My discussion had failed...my argument had failed...my hand failed.
He was not given the opportunity to turn the other cheek.
I took it.

He had made a decision that will probably cost him his life.
I was desperate to change his mind.

We struggled for a moment....but I had already lost.
He had made up his mind....days before.

We have parted company under sorrowful terms.

It is unlikely I will ever see my son again.
His decision was poor...his reason shallow....he might die for such things.

Perhaps it would have been better to have withheld my hand.


Hey Thief, thanks for the wise words. This time you did rob my confidence, because I agree with you. If you had turned the other cheek within the context that you so well explain here, the contension had not ended so bad. I am sorry, guy. I also have two sons. I have a pretty good idea of what you are going through.
 
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