SOS message to Christian women and men: Do you accept the stoning of women for reasons of adultery

[kejos]

Those people would fall into the category I mentioned: those who are not members of a church at all.

If church members are defined as those belonging to denominations, then they won't figure as members of denominations. One would have to prove that denominational membership is necessary to be a Christian if one was to discount them as Christians.

 

[tumbleweed41]

But does Kejos consider himself a Christian?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If church members are defined as those belonging to denominations, then they won't figure as members of denominations.

You've got it backwards: a denomination is defined as a group of churches (sometimes as small as one church) that, due to either history or beliefs, is distinct from other groups. All churches belong to a denomination, so if you belong to a church, you belong to a denomination as well.

One would have to prove that denominational membership is necessary to be a Christian if one was to discount them as Christians.

I never discounted them as Christians. If you recall from my original post in this back-and-forth with you, I brought up the possibility that a Christian might not belong to any church.

 

[kejos]

You've got it backwards: a denomination is defined as a group of churches (sometimes as small as one church) that, due to either history or beliefs, is distinct from other groups.

A supposedly Christian body is not referred to as denominational if it has only one congregation. It is referred to as an Independent, or an independent, if it has its own building to which anyone may make enquiry; a house group, if it meets in a home or homes, and membership is through personal contact only, though this is a minor distinction, and both types can be described as independents. Some independents get together to make a loose federation that gives them joint benefits, but they remain autonomous, unlike a congregation of a denomination, which is controlled by a central authority.

Many Christians have left denominations because they have been unable to influence those central authorities, which have become increasingly unsatisfactory to them.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

but they remain autonomous, unlike a congregation of a denomination, which is controlled by a central authority.

:biglaugh:

 

[tumbleweed41]

Many Christians have left denominations because they have been unable to influence those central authorities, which have become increasingly unsatisfactory to them.

Are you a Christian?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Are you a Christian?

[youtube]4HAjhtPZGDY[/youtube]
YouTube - Michigan J. Frog - Hello, My Baby

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A supposedly Christian body is not referred to as denominational if it has only one congregation. It is referred to as an Independent, or an independent, if it has its own building to which anyone may make enquiry; a house group, if it meets in a home or homes, and membership is through personal contact only, though this is a minor distinction, and both types can be described as independents. Some independents get together to make a loose federation that gives them joint benefits, but they remain autonomous, unlike a congregation of a denomination, which is controlled by a central authority.

I think you're working from a non-standard definition of "denomination". It's not simply a matter of authority. Some denominations (e.g. the Roman Catholic Church) do have central authorities, but others (e.g. Quakers) are "loose federations" like you describe, with each individual church/meeting retaining autonomy.

Many Christians have left denominations because they have been unable to influence those central authorities, which have become increasingly unsatisfactory to them.

Yes, I agree: many Christians have stopped going to any sort of church.

 

[kejos]

I think you're working from a non-standard definition of "denomination". It's not simply a matter of authority. Some denominations (e.g. the Roman Catholic Church) do have central authorities

Allegedly Christian denominations have central authorities, or they cannot have an identifiable denominational belief.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Allallegedly Christian denominations have central authorities, or they cannot have an identifiable denominational belief.

Wait... so two people can't believe the same thing unless they're imposed upon by someone higher than them?

Out of curiosity, what's the "central authority" responsible for the identifiable denominational Quaker beliefs of the "inner light" and pacifism?

 

[kejos]

Yes, I agree

A falsehood.

many Christians have stopped going to any sort of church.

Not so. They go to independent churches or house groups. It is difficult to make an estimate, and there are regional variations, but the likelihood is that there are now more Christians in those churches than there are in the denominations.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Each "non-denominational" or 'independent" church forms its own unofficial "denomination" with specific tenets as defined by the beliefs and practices within its own congregation. The same could be said of any group that meets regularly to worship or pray. Being bound by common beliefs and practices, they have a credal identity and have in essence formed a de facto denomination.

 

[kejos]

Each "non-denominational" or 'independent" church forms its own unofficial "denomination" with specific tenets as defined by the beliefs and practices within its own congregation. The same could be said of any group that meets regularly to worship or pray. Being bound by common beliefs and practices, they have a credal identity and have in essence formed a de facto denomination.

That's a fine analysis. But it's useless until others recognise it.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's a fine analysis. But it's useless until others recognise it.

You mean useless for you because you don't recognize it.

 

[tumbleweed41]

That's a fine analysis. But it's useless until others recognise it.

By others, do you mean yourself?

And....do you consider yourself a Christian?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

By others, do you mean yourself?

Yeah, we're on the same page.

Calling Captian Obvious....

 

[kejos]

You mean useless for you because you don't recognize it.

Try it out in the real world.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Try it out in the real world.

You're delusional.

 

[kejos]

'1. A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.'

denomination - definition of denomination by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

'1. A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.'

denomination - definition of denomination by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

From your link:

denomination [dɪˌnɒmɪˈneɪʃən] n 1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) a group having a distinctive interpretation of a religious faith and usually its own organization




Compare that to:

A supposedly Christian body is not referred to as denominational if it has only one congregation. It is referred to as an Independent, or an independent, if it has its own building to which anyone may make enquiry; a house group, if it meets in a home or homes, and membership is through personal contact only, though this is a minor distinction, and both types can be described as independents. Some independents get together to make a loose federation that gives them joint benefits, but they remain autonomous, unlike a congregation of a denomination, which is controlled by a central authority.

Many Christians have left denominations because they have been unable to influence those central authorities, which have become increasingly unsatisfactory to them.