South Carolina OKs ban on gender affirming care.

[icehorse]

Dangerous compared to what?

Why incur needless danger? We do not just "try out" dangerous interventions on people "just in case" they might work.

And to your point, talk therapy is immensely less dangerous for gay kids than drugs or surgeries.

 

[icehorse]

Right, I’m extremely pro affirmation because it works, but what has lasting benefit is affirmation of the individuating self. A strong gender identity supplants the self.

I’m not objecting to affirmative care in the least. I just strongly disagree that affirmative care should be done through the frame of gender.

That's a really interesting perspective, I like it!

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Would you be pro affirmation for those who feel depressed and are suicidal? It seems to work in Canada, and nobody who goes through with it ever claims to regret it.

For everyone. Not necessarily in paid sessions. I’ve never had therapy because I’ve always done my own self-affirmation. Most people can do it themselves as well.

Mainstream religions are failing through negligence in this regard.

 

[Laniakea]

For everyone. Not necessarily in paid sessions. I’ve never had therapy because I’ve always done my own self-affirmation. Most people can do it themselves as well.

And do you believe it solves their problem?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

And do you believe it solves their problem?

It’s the beginning of the solution. It stabilizes at the very least.

 

[libre]

Did YOU read the ToC? ToC's are quite useful. I've written 14 books and designed the ToCs for all of them. I've coached over 500 authors and helped them design ToCs. Take 10 minutes and read the ToC that YOU provided. You asked me to take the time to read what you sent me.

I don't think your experience in writing Tables of Contents gives you the expertise needed to draw meaningful medical conclusions from a set of headlines.

It would appear that I've taken more time than you ON YOUR DOCUMENT !!

Can you read the single page I asked you to? 'Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic', which I provided the page number for.

 

[Laniakea]

It’s the beginning of the solution. It stabilizes at the very least.

Until when? When they come back from the dead?
To clarify what I was originally asking back in post #500, I was asking about people who are depressed and suicidal. I was referring to those who are wanting to kill themselves. Should those desires be affirmed? In Canada, they're doing just that.

 

[Left Coast]

Hey! We have found a point of agreement!

And my point is that GAC ASSUMES that the cure for GD is transitioning.

No, it doesn't assume that. We have data demonstrating that GAC improves gender dysphoria. Thus why clinical professionals endorse and prescribe it.

And in many cases, that's not true. So I'm advocating for kids who NO ONE knows how they will develop.

You seem to be advocating for the idea that the way to cure GD is through transitioning. That's true SOMETIMES, but not always, and the GAC crowd isn't transparent about that.

You're advocating that GAC literally be banned for minors. If you're conceding that GAC is effective at least sometimes, shouldn't it be up to licensed medical professionals to determine when and how various GAC interventions are appropriate for a given patient?

 

[Left Coast]

Why incur needless danger? We do not just "try out" dangerous interventions on people "just in case" they might work.

This is silly reasoning. No licensed medical professional is just randomly "trying something out" when they prescribe hormones or puberty blockers or recommend surgery for a trans or non-binary patient. They're using established clinical protocols that we have empirical evidence are effective.

And to your point, talk therapy is immensely less dangerous for gay kids than drugs or surgeries.

Which is why it's the first line treatment, generally speaking. Yet some kids need more than that. Thus why people who do this every day for a living are trying to tell you to allow them to provide kids treatment they need.

 

[Father Heathen]

This is going to be a difficult problem for years to come because (1) there are competing values (2) young people are affected (3) each side is suspicious of the other side’s underlying, perhaps unconscious, motivations.

Why does one side believe that their "values" entitle them to hold power over the bodies and lives of other people? There would be no difficult problems if people minded their own business, got over it, and moved on.

 

[Laniakea]

Why does one side believe that their "values" entitle them to hold power over the bodies and lives of other people? There would be no difficult problems if people minded their own business, got over it, and moved on.

Now you understand how those subjected to Covid injection mandates felt.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Why does one side believe that their "values" entitle them to hold power over the bodies and lives of other people? There would be no difficult problems if people minded their own business, got over it, and moved on.

Framing this in terms of power is your failing, not mine. I’d imagine you’re often confused with such a simple view of reality.

 

[Soandso]

Now you understand how those subjected to Covid injection mandates felt.

To be fair, I'm not quite sure an emergency vaccine meant to deal with a once in a hundred year event (global pandemic) is an apples to apples comparison

 

[Father Heathen]

Now you understand how those subjected to Covid injection mandates felt.

The obvious difference is that one's personal choice could potentually harm others, what with covid being an infectus disease and all. Not much different than expecting others to cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze, or to wipe their *** and wash their hands after using the restroom. I've questioned the hygenical and sanitary practices of those who whined about masks and vaccines.

 

[Laniakea]

The obvious difference is that one's personal choice could potentually harm others, what with covid being an infectus disease and all. Not much different than expecting others to cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze, or to wipe their *** and wash their hands after using the restroom. I've questioned the hygenical and sanitary practices of those who whined about masks and vaccines.

Sure, anything to demonize your opponent.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Which is why it's the first line treatment, generally speaking. Yet some kids need more than that.

A strong gender identity needs more than that because it seeks to actualize and fully dominate the self. The gender specialists need more than that because they derive their meaning through full transition. The kids are simply on the ride.

 

[Laniakea]

To be fair, I'm not quite sure an emergency vaccine meant to deal with a once in a hundred year event (global pandemic) is an apples to apples comparison

If it was rushed out for an "emergency", all the more reason for people to question a mandate to put it in their own body.

 

[Father Heathen]

Framing this in terms of power is your failing, not mine. I’d imagine you’re often confused with such a simple view of reality.

When people pursue legilation against LGBT, of course it's about exerting power and curtailing freedom.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

When people pursue legilation against LGBT, of course it's about exerting power and curtailing freedom.

Freedom and power aren’t the only relevant values. Try harder.

 

[Father Heathen]

Freedom and power aren’t the only relevant values. Try harder.

Do you mean the irrational, arbitrary religious hang-ups?