Spanking Kids in Kansas

[Alceste]

Well lest see more of it happening, it might bring us back too civilisation.

Lol, everybody smacking each other around whenever they're annoyed. Sounds super civilized.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

I don't see any scientific evidence supporting your views being presented. You were asked for that twice. In fact, no one has offered any proof that hitting kids is a positive thing. All I see is "in my day..." and "snot-nosed brats need a spanking". Sorry, but that doesn't work. Back up your claims or don't bother.

We shouldn't hold our breath there. There is pretty sound evidence that corporal punishment just doesn't work, particularly in the long term; all it really teaches children is if they're going to do something wrong, they should make sure nobody is watching. Research shows it does NOT help children actually internalize the reasons for behaving appropriately. Worse, it can have a negative emotional/psychological impact (for obvious reasons, seeing as it involves violence and pain). Its basically a lose-lose proposition. After all, there is a reason why international authoritative bodies (the UN, Council of Europe, etc.) have repeatedly declared that corporal punishment violates international human rights agreements.

If you want to spank your own kids, then OK, its poor parenting, but you have the right to be a poor parent. When it comes to other people's children however, there is absolutely no justification for allowing corporal punishment.

 

[ChristineES]

There are two sides to it. It seemingly seems to many that kids are getting more and more defiant since spanking has been challenged but we also don't know if stronger corporal punishment will do any good. It is something for the experts to discuss- or would be if experts actually knew anything (Just kidding on that last one )

 

[Alceste]

There are two sides to it. It seemingly seems to many that kids are getting more and more defiant since spanking has been challenged but we also don't know if stronger corporal punishment will do any good. It is something for the experts to discuss- or would be if experts actually knew anything (Just kidding on that last one )

We actually do know it does no good, and can cause harm in the long term. Sunstone summed up the science in the OP.

Other studies I've read have found that hitting smaller children puts an end to whatever behavior they're being spanked for at that moment, but it's no better than non-violent methods of controlling your kids. And really, if you have to hit a toddler to control their behavior, you're a total idiot.

 

[MoonWater]

But I am not talking about beating a kid to death, just a slap on the bum, or a few hits at school with the cane. All this time out crap just hasn't worked, and because of no discipline kids are becoming more manipulate, their very good at it. I predict that in the near future, parents will be actually killing their kids more often, because they being a generation of manipulative nature, will not be able to handle the generation that they caused.

Take it from a preschool teacher who has been studying child psychology for the past 4-5 odd years. Any kind of corporal punishment will be at best unproductive and at worst counter-productive. It does nothing to help the child realize why what they did was wrong and as such only encourages them to lie and hide out of fear rather than confront the issues at hand. Beyond that it can severely damage a parent's relationship with their children. There are FAR more effective ways to discipline children through the use of redirection and taking away of privileges as it teaches them the proper behavior and the direct consequences of their actions. When they're old enough you talk to them, ask them why they acted the way they did and explain how it's not appropriate but beyond that tell them the proper way to behave. I have seen this work several times in preschools where a child will kick another child for chasing them, then, instead of smacking them, we teach them to "use their words" and the next time that kid is being chased they use them saying "stop it, I don't like it" and the other child stops.

And that "manipulative nature" you speak of? That is children pushing boundaries and is a natural part of their growth and development. That's why the best way to manage a child's behavior is through positive redirection, consistency, and repetition so they not only learn what they did wrong but WHY it was wrong and, more importantly, what the RIGHT thing to do is. Yes it takes more time and effort on the part of the teachers and parents but in this case that's a good thing and in the long run everyone will be better for it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Take it from a preschool teacher who has been studying child psychology for the past 4-5 odd years. Any kind of corporal punishment will be at best unproductive and at worst counter-productive. It does nothing to help the child realize why what they did was wrong and as such only encourages them to lie and hide out of fear rather than confront the issues at hand. Beyond that it can severely damage a parent's relationship with their children. There are FAR more effective ways to discipline children through the use of redirection and taking away of privileges as it teaches them the proper behavior and the direct consequences of their actions. When they're old enough you talk to them, ask them why they acted the way they did and explain how it's not appropriate but beyond that tell them the proper way to behave. I have seen this work several times in preschools where a child will kick another child for chasing them, then, instead of smacking them, we teach them to "use their words" and the next time that kid is being chased they use them saying "stop it, I don't like it" and the other child stops.

And that "manipulative nature" you speak of? That is children pushing boundaries and is a natural part of their growth and development. That's why the best way to manage a child's behavior is through positive redirection, consistency, and repetition so they not only learn what they did wrong but WHY it was wrong and, more importantly, what the RIGHT thing to do is. Yes it takes more time and effort on the part of the teachers and parents but in this case that's a good thing and in the long run everyone will be better for it.

Kids that I teach - and ADULTS that I teach - respond to boundaries when they are:

a) safe
b) age-appropriate
c) communicated with respect and clarity

If students don't follow the rules, they are simply not allowed to participate. There is no need to inflict pain on them for punishment. I put them through enough pain with their assignments, exams, and physical training.

25+ years of teaching has shown me that MoonWater has a lot correct in her assessment about effective disciplinary measures.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

A hard, forceful smack I'm against. A slightly stinging tap I'm all for. You can't get anywhere far without discipline.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

It seemingly seems to many that kids are getting more and more defiant since spanking has been challenged but we also don't know if stronger corporal punishment will do any good.

Yeah, we pretty much do know that it won't do any good.

It is something for the experts to discuss- or would be if experts actually knew anything (Just kidding on that last one )

For the most part, the discussion is over. As I noted, several international authorities, including the UN, have condemned corporal punishment as violating human rights, 20-some countries have a ban on corporal punishment, and nearly 100 countries have a ban on corporal punishment by teachers/school administrators. Study after study has concluded that it is not effective in reinforcing desirable behavior or discouraging negative behavior, particularly long term, and it leads to negative consequences as well. There really isn't a whole lot else to say at this point. Corporal punishment doesn't really serve any purpose, unless you simply like hitting children- it certainly doesn't help the child learn anything.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

25+ years of teaching has shown me that MoonWater has a lot correct in her assessment about effective disciplinary measures.

You haven't had me for a student yet. Better get that paddle ready.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

25+ years of teaching has shown me that MoonWater has a lot correct in her assessment about effective disciplinary measures.

Not to mention most of the research that exists on the subject, as well as alot of basic principles of classical psychology, oh, and lets not forget about simple common sense either- all of which support this conclusion as well.

Pretty cut-and-dry, really.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

This bill needs to be struck down....and she should be spanked by nuns with wooden paddles full of holes for offering such a ridiculous bill.

This comes to mind.
http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx4/amberdare/SoulPole2.jpg

 

[averageJOE]

Yes if the rest of the public needs a good hit, then yes hit them, it might wake then up.

So you are in favor of husbands smacking their wives around if the are "disrespectful"? Interesting.

 

[psychoslice]

So you are in favor of husbands smacking their wives around if the are "disrespectful"? Interesting.

Don't carry on, a canning at school and a hit on the bottom is what I an talking about, so don't try to make what I said into something totally different.

 

[Quagmire]

Look on the bright side: If this bill passes, think of all the high school kids who'll get to be spanked by the teacher they have crushes on! The "K" in Kansas might someday come to stand for "Kinky".

It already does, just not in a good way.

 

[averageJOE]

Don't carry on, a canning at school and a hit on the bottom is what I an talking about, so don't try to make what I said into something totally different.

Please explain the difference??? You feel it's ok to hit a child with a cane for for being disrespectful, but you feel it's NOT ok to hit your wife, with your hand, for being disrespectful. Is the difference because a child is incapable of fighting back?

I cannot wait.

 

[Willamena]

Please explain the difference???

Context is the difference.

 

[Alceste]

Context is the difference.

But the context is the same. In both instances, violence is used to punish someone who is annoying you in the hope that pain and fear will alter their behavior. It's completely irrational to support hitting children when you're annoyed with them but not adults.

I will never understand the enthusiasm many otherwise intelligent people have for hitting children, even when they understand it is wrong to hit other adults. Quite disturbing, really.

 

[averageJOE]

But the context is the same. In both instances, violence is used to punish someone who is annoying you in the hope that pain and fear will alter their behavior. It's completely irrational to support hitting children when you're annoyed with them but not adults.

I will never understand the enthusiasm many otherwise intelligent people have for hitting children, even when they understand it is wrong to hit other adults. Quite disturbing, really.

Exactly this. People will support a child being hit with a cane from an adult, but somehow draw the line at hitting a spouse with their hand? And when does it stop? Is it OK to continue to hit a 17 year old with a cane, but on their 18th birthday it's not OK anymore?

 

[psychoslice]

Please explain the difference??? You feel it's ok to hit a child with a cane for for being disrespectful, but you feel it's NOT ok to hit your wife, with your hand, for being disrespectful. Is the difference because a child is incapable of fighting back?

I cannot wait.

Well of course your wife is a grown up she should know better, if you don't like what she does well leave her, but don't hit her. The thing is since they have taken discipline away kids the world is getting worse than ever, you would have to be living under a rock not to see that.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well of course your wife is a grown up she should know better, if you don't like what she does well leave her, but don't hit her. The thing is since they have taken discipline away kids the world is getting worse than ever, you would have to be living under a rock not to see that.

I disagree, and I don't live under a rock.

Here's the thing: "Discipline" does not necessarily equate to "physical punishment." There are many many numerous ways to discipline without punishment, and I utilize them often.

I only use the whip on those who have given clear and informed consent for me to do so.