St. Paul on Same Sex Marriage.

[F1fan]

Are morality and tolerance the only criteria for right thought and action? If you say yes, then we disagree since I believe it's moral to be intolerant of some activities and ideas.

You disagree with me about my tolerance that you didn't bother to ask me about. I'm advocating for a humanist morality and tolerance. That means I won't tolerant immoral beliefs and actions. I will tolerate personal freedoms that harm no one else.

Are you a same-thought thinker with me?

But of course same-thought thinkers will know that my disagreement is itself intolerant and thus immoral such that shutting down my thought isn't intolerant or immoral since I forfeit my right to protest when I put forth my first bigoted thought: disagreement with the singularity of goodness and knowing what is right.

Get back back to me when you find clarity.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Lol, that's absurd. There's no evolutionary advantage to having sex in ways that the body is not designed for. It's a sure cause of sexual desease and contributes nothing to us as a species.

I feel like I've had to say this a lot but:

Lots of animals don't breed, there's whole biological strategies around social dynamics where not all members do. Including same-sex pairing among non-human animals. Evolution is a population study, not an individual one.

Also, anal sex comes with increased sti risk but it's not limited to gay men, and not all gay men do it.
Meanwhile lesbians have equal to lower sti transmission as heterosexual women.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I only claimed there's no biological sex in heaven. There may be some form of intercourse, sex. But since there's no binary gender in heaven, there can only be homo-sex if there's sex at all. Which is what the question in the final paragraph in the thread-seeder was about.



John

There can't be homo sex if there are no genders. There's no indication that there's any kind of sexual desire in heaven so there certainly would not be perverted desires.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I feel like I've had to say this a lot but:

Lots of animals don't breed, there's whole biological strategies around social dynamics where not all members do. Including same-sex pairing among non-human animals. Evolution is a population study, not an individual one.

Also, anal sex comes with increased sti risk but it's not limited to gay men, and not all gay men do it.
Meanwhile lesbians have equal to lower sti transmission as heterosexual women.

That doesn't change anything I said so why bother saying it?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That doesn't change anything I said so why bother saying it?

Gay sex doesn't spread disease any more than heterosexual sex and evolutionary benefit is not based on individuals breeding but population dynamics. That doesn't change anything you said?

 

[1213]

...
Whereas Jesus said nothing about homosexuality ...

Sorry, I don’t think that is true, because Jesus said:

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

The law is against the homosexual act and Jesus confirms the law.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Gay sex doesn't spread disease any more than heterosexual sex and evolutionary benefit is not based on individuals breeding but population dynamics. That doesn't change anything you said?

You are simply wrong.

 

[F1fan]

Sorry, I don’t think that is true, because Jesus said:

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

The law is against the homosexual act and Jesus confirms the law.

So all the other 600+ laws in Leviticus, Exodus, etc. are valid and must be obeyed, even if they are against the civil laws of the USA?

Or are these religious laws and only apply to those who are Christian?

 

[F1fan]

You are simply wrong.

You are correct that get men have a higher risk of getting STD.

But you are aware that anyone can get STDs, yes? Are you opposed to sex in general, or just gay sex?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You are correct that get men have a higher risk of getting STD.

But you are aware that anyone can get STDs, yes? Are you opposed to sex in general, or just gay sex?

I'm aware, but not if they only have sex with one person who only ever has sex with them. Kinda like God designed marriage to work, huh?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You are simply wrong.

You are correct that get men have a higher risk of getting STD.

But you are aware that anyone can get STDs, yes? Are you opposed to sex in general, or just gay sex?

Gay men are more likely to pick up some STI because anal sex is higher risk sex, but again, anal sex isn't exclusive to or required of gay men and STI where gay men are more vulnerable (like HIV), gay women are far less likely to get it. Lesbians are the lowest bracket group. Whenever STI and homosexuality come up, they usually are just talking about anal sex.

I'm aware, but not if they only have sex with one person who only ever has sex with them. Kinda like God designed marriage to work, huh?

Monogamy isn't exclusive to heterosexuals either.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Sorry, I don’t think that is true, because Jesus said:

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

The law is against the homosexual act and Jesus confirms the law.

The laws were summed into Love God and neighbor. Love and grace are the common factors. Love does not demean or condescend. The holy spirit is the teacher since Jesus, certainly not the OT. The OT needs to be taken with Jesus' teachings in mind, not changing Jesus to pretend he agreed with the OT. The religious leaders hated him because he put people before dogma.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Monogamy isn't exclusive to heterosexuals either.

But statistically more of them are monogamous.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

But statistically more of them are monogamous.

And white and wealthy people are more statistically monogamous than POC and poor people but we don't say that the problem is being a poor person or being a person of color.
And if the intent were to curb sti transmission, which again, is still lower among lesbians than straight women in sti like HIV, then stressing protection and communication is a lot more important than stressing abstinence outside of marriage. Which has been statistically shown to not only not work, but make things worse (to clarify, abstinence only program states and counties have higher sti rates and unwanted pregnancies than those with comprehensive sex Ed and accessibility to protection.)

 

[Wildswanderer]

And if the intent were to curb sti transmission, which again, is still lower among lesbians than straight women in sti like HIV, then stressing protection and communication is a lot more important than stressing abstinence outside of marriage

That doesn't make sense. If everyone abstained until marriage there would be no STDs.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That doesn't make sense. If everyone abstained until marriage there would be no STDs.

I didn't say staying abstinent doesn't prevent sti. I'm saying that abstinence only education doesn't work to actually curb a region's sti rates. Probably because sex is natural and marriage and celibacy promises aren't.
What does seem to work is comprehensive sex ed and making protection readily available.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Probably because sex is natural and marriage and celibacy promises aren't.

Marriage is certainly natural. It's the basis of a healthy society. You can see the sickness in our society because of the brokeness of marriage and family.

 

[Left Coast]

I feel like I've had to say this a lot but:

Lots of animals don't breed, there's whole biological strategies around social dynamics where not all members do. Including same-sex pairing among non-human animals. Evolution is a population study, not an individual one.

Also, anal sex comes with increased sti risk but it's not limited to gay men, and not all gay men do it.
Meanwhile lesbians have equal to lower sti transmission as heterosexual women.

Thank you for saying all this so I didn't have to.

 

[Left Coast]

That doesn't make sense. If everyone abstained until marriage there would be no STDs.

And that applies to same sex couples as well. Thank you for making a great argument for gay marriage!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Marriage is certainly natural. It's the basis of a healthy society. You can see the sickness in our society because of the brokeness of marriage and family.

It's literally an artificial human construct. No more natural than clothing. Useful, certainly, at the very least because it merges wealth and assets before the law. But if you're relying on marriage to be your commitment then it's no wonder so many fail. If you can't be dedicated to your partner without marriage then you never were.

I see broken sickness in our society but it's got nothing to do with homosexuality or how seriously we invest into marriage, but the *actual* things purported leading to Sodom and Gomorrah's fall: lack of charity and demonizing neighbors.

But I digress. Far afield of the original topic.