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Star Wars, Episode VII - Caution! Spoilers

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
I still find it ironic and weird for Ren to try to emulate Vader and finish what he started, even though Vader wasn't in charge of the Empire and Vader went against the dark side and defeated Palpatine and helped defeat the empire. Guess Luke forgot to tell Ren that when he was training him.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I still find it ironic and weird for Ren to try to emulate Vader and finish what he started, even though Vader wasn't in charge of the Empire and Vader went against the dark side and defeated Palpatine and helped defeat the empire. Guess Luke forgot to tell Ren that when he was training him.
Luke must be a terrible teacher.
If he tried to create a Captain America, he'd prolly create another Hitler.

Godwin prize!
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The ultimate criticism......
I found the season finale of Downton Abbey more inspired than this movie.
Lady Edith would make a good Jedi warrior.
I still wouldn't trust Barrow to stay in the light though.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
I enjoyed it, but it wasn't a great movie......
- The plot was virtually the same as Episode IV (1977)
- The acting was mostly wooden. Daisy Ridley (Rey) was worthy though.
- The dialogue was uninspiring.
- Some of the movie was predicated on drama we never saw, so it didn't seem compelling.....
Kylo Ren's turning to the dark side wasn't believable.
His murder of Han Solo seemed pointless.
Han's & Leia's supposedly strained relationship was unrealistic.
- Finn's defection from the First Order was the most interesting aspect of the movie for me, but it needed more development to be credible.
- Draining a star of energy, & storing all of it in device? I know it's science fantasy (not science fiction), but geeze Louise folks, that's needlessly unscientific.

I propose an entire movie about Finn's journey from young stormtrooper trainee to rebel scum.
Your first point is the one that sticks out to me. It was so similar in many ways and had me wondering if I had wandered into the wrong theater... from ~40 years ago...
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Thanks a lot you whore mouthing spoiler, I haven't seen the film yet. :poutingcat:
I thought my title was a clear warning that spoilers lurked within.....cuz it's a discussion of the movie.
But I knew those things going in, & it didn't detract from the experience.

But I heeded your complaint, & amended the title to be more obvious.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Jackovasaur ******* Abrams should never touch Star Trek or Star Wars again. NEVER.
As for Episode 7, it wasn't as bad as it could have been, but I found I like Episode I, II, and III much more, and everything about 7 was really just mediocre. Certainly nothing worthy of inheriting such a noble and influential torch.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Only complaint was how pointless Han's death was. There was zero point to it and it wasn't even dramatic. They could have done much more with the death scene so it actually affected the viewer.

However, I have my own theory that Solo may have escaped death somehow. Mr Ford has always had trouble cooperating with production crews and keeping loyalties, and in the originals they keep Han frozen in carbonate in between 2 movies so if he wouldn't want to come back for the next movie it wouldn't be a huge continuity error. I can see this being something similar
Harrison Ford thought that Han should have died during Jedi - which could have made for a very nice dramatic scene in the movie, but only if the death was a good death for the character (which would have been a bit difficult to pull off since he really wasn't anywhere that could have provided him with a good death during Jedi)
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Kylo Ren is trying to emulate his grandfather Darth Vader, and to finish what he started. For one thing, Vader wasn't the head of the empire and also Darth Vader is the reason the Emperor is dead and helped defeat the empire. Didn't Luke tell him that when he was training him?
We don’t know what Ren knows or believes about Vader. Maybe Luke didn’t want to talk about his father turning to the dark side at all, that could even be a secret Ren discovers (hence him ending up with the mask). Most people think the thing to finish is destroying the Jedi. I suspect Ren was rejected by Luke as a prospective Jedi and that put him on the dark path (be that before or after any influence from Snoke). He learns (a possible corrupted) truth about Anakin/Vader and decided (or is inspired to) complete the destruction of the Jedi.

Why did Luke leave anyway? Because he was ashamed? So it's better for him to leave and let the First Order destroy everything than it is to do something about it?
I think that’s a deliberate mystery for the next films to look in to. If one (or more? Knights of Ren?) of the prospective Jedi turned out bad, he may think it’d be best for him not to interfere at all. Alternatively, maybe he was searching for something (physically or “spiritually”) at the old Jedi Temple to fix things or make it work better next time.

Anakin is a Force Ghost now Why didn't he personally show up to Kylo Ren and say "Dude the Dark Side isn't worth it. Stop trying to emulate me. It caused my wife to die, I ended up as a cyborg and had to take orders from an old lunatic. Not worth it dude."
I think the idea is that the force ghosts can only appear to people open to seeing them, and it’s always been Jedi, never Sith. If they could appear to anyone they wanted, there’d be a lot more they could and would do (though I did read something saying there was an idea for exactly that to happen but it was dropped). It’d be perfectly possible for Ren to dismiss that as a trick or to think he could do better anyway.
 

chevron1

Active Member
others have noted that as well; but the whole series is based on the mythological cycle of the return of the Hero. Episode I also mimicked episode VI.

i have not yet seen episode 7, but although episode 1 and 4 did well, even adjusting for inflation, they didn't do this well. must be something subliminal going on. :)
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
So if Kylo Ren is the grandson of Darth Vader, whose his mother and father? Princes Lea and Han Solo?
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Why does he wear the mask? Does he become severely injured sometime during the film? Or is it some sort of tradition of the knights of Ren?
He's trying to look like Darth Vader, whom he wants to be as powerful and great as. He doesn't wear it all the time. In the confrontation at the end with Rey, he is injured, but survives--but it's not damage to his face or head.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
He's trying to look like Darth Vader, whom he wants to be as powerful and great as. He doesn't wear it all the time. In the confrontation at the end with Rey, he is injured, but survives--but it's not damage to his face or head.

Very interesting. Last questions, as I am going to see the film this weekend. Does Kylo Ren begin as sort of a good guy in the beginning but eventually turns to the Dark Side and becomes a disciple of Darth Vader's legacy of hunting down and destroying potential Jedi knights?
 
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