Still think it's an exaggeration?

[Thief]

has anyone viewed .... An Inconvenient Truth.....?
Al Gore narrates

and 'we the people' are not in a position to change anything

we would have to stop driving to work
we would have to stop heating our homes

fossil fuel lifestyle can only be stopped by cheap and effective alternatives
placed on market
where even poor people can afford them

the rich must give up what they have
income from those who cannot do anything but follow the mainstream

give transport and heated homes to the poor?

THAT would be global change!

 

[Thief]

No good reason? I thought I already gave some good reasons here in this thread.

1. I don't see this global warming for myself;

I am old enough to see it

where i live .....we could count on a white Christmas.....
when i was a little boy

not anymore

 

[buddhist]

Because there millions of square miles of Earth that are not around or near you?

... and?

 

[buddhist]

I am old enough to see it

where i live .....we could count on a white Christmas.....
when i was a little boy

not anymore

Cool. I've observed differently.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

... and?

And there is a lot going on in the world that you won't immediately observe in your own proximity. Rather you want to accept it or not, factually and objectively the Earth as a whole is warming up.

 

[buddhist]

And there is a lot going on in the world that you won't immediately observe in your own proximity. Rather you want to accept it or not, factually and objectively the Earth as a whole is warming up.

When you say the "Earth as a whole is warming up", do you speak from personal knowledge (having experienced all data points for yourself), or from blind faith in hearsay?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When you say the "Earth as a whole is warming up", do you speak from personal knowledge (having experienced all data points for yourself), or from blind faith in hearsay?

I have read the studies and reports from numerous organizations and universities. Kind of like I have read a ton of articles about evolution. Or even in my own field of psychology, which does technically boil down to having read the works of others, even when conducting my own research.

 

[buddhist]

I have read the studies and reports from numerous organizations and universities. Kind of like I have read a ton of articles about evolution. Or even in my own field of psychology, which does technically boil down to having read the works of others, even when conducting my own research.

So ... blind faith in hearsay, from data allegedly collected by others.

 

[columbus]

When you say the "Earth as a whole is warming up", do you speak from personal knowledge (having experienced all data points for yourself), or from blind faith in hearsay?

There is a huge grey area between those two things. I don't believe everything I hear. But I don't think I am so educated and perceptive that I ignore people who are experts in a field because what they say isn't what I want to hear or prefer to believe.
I am not as religious as you are.
Tom

 

[buddhist]

There is a huge grey area between those two things. I don't believe everything I hear. But I don't think I am so educated and perceptive that I ignore people who are experts in a field because what they say isn't what I want to hear or prefer to believe.

I question the data and their motives, especially since they have an interest in depriving me of my money and liberties (aka mandatory tithes and laws to follow).

I am not as religious as you are.
Tom

Really? I could've been fooled ... I don't have the blind religious-like faith in these self-proclaimed authorities and their dogmatic pronouncements as you seem to have.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...imate-sensitivity-seven-degrees-a7407881.html

Perhaps we should put aside our ideological differences to tackle this growing problem?

It's one of the the oldest superstitions known to mankind, that bad weather is caused by people angering nature. This shadow of fear has always been there and probably always will

It has always been used to prey on the gullible, to elicit 'sacrifices' to the weather Gods, accepted by those in power on Gaia's behalf.

Swapping scary masks and dances for computer sims doesn't make it any less scientifically illiterate. There are plenty real problems for us to come together on.

 

[Thief]

It's one of the the oldest superstitions known to mankind, that bad weather is caused by people angering nature. This shadow of fear has always been there and probably always will

It has always been used to prey on the gullible, to elicit 'sacrifices' to the weather Gods, accepted by those in power on Gaia's behalf.

Swapping scary masks and dances for computer sims doesn't make it any less scientifically illiterate. There are plenty real problems for us to come together on.

well....well.....well....

a confusion between dogma, superstition, and science......

but do we agree?.....humans are the immediate cause for the temperature shift

 

[Guy Threepwood]

well....well.....well....

a confusion between dogma, superstition, and science......

but do we agree?.....humans are the immediate cause for the temperature shift

No, again that belief has remained constant for millennia, whatever the 'shift' happens to be at the time.
That's why it was called global cooling when I was in school. Wait a while and it will be again- but one thing we do know for sure, the warmer periods as far preferable than colder ones.

Much as we humans like to feel potent, there is no empirical scientific mechanism by which we significantly affect the climate,, there are vast natural forces far beyond our ability. There are many complex scientific explanations for why our climate is, and always has been, dynamic, without resorting to anthropomorphic superstition

 

[Thief]

No, again that belief has remained constant for millennia, whatever the 'shift' happens to be at the time.
That's why it was called global cooling when I was in school. Wait a while and it will be again- but one thing we do know for sure, the warmer periods as far preferable than colder ones.

Much as we humans like to feel potent, there is no empirical scientific mechanism by which we significantly affect the climate,, there are vast natural forces far beyond our ability. There are many complex scientific explanations for why our climate is, and always has been, dynamic, without resorting to anthropomorphic superstition

we are not discussing a 'shift' over several thousands of years.....

I saw one documentary that tells of 'core' samples taken from high glaciers.....
turns out.....New York was under a glacier when the average temp was only 7degrees cooler

Now...since the invention of mass transportation and coal driven electric plants.....
the average temp has gone up 3degrees.....
in the past FIFTY years

we are doing this

 

[Thief]

saw another documentary.....
since the invention of the orbiting weather satellite.....

photos of the equator have been taken in light spectrums we cannot see

years ago....the equator was deep in forest and a somewhat 'cool' image
Now.....the forest is half gone.....and the photos are more orange to red

 

[Thief]

the Sahara grows one mile every year
It has swallowed more than one small village

 

[illykitty]

When I was a kid in Canada about 20 years ago, there was snow in November and we could make snowmen easily. Many people would make their own backyard ice rinks. Now it's going to be 11 degrees C in early December.

Some people say 'oh the weather's great', but many Canadians find it weird. It's a bit unsettling to not have that blistering cold anymore, except for January and February.

I've had the same experience, being from Quebec. When I was little, it was pretty much a sure thing to have snow in November and a white Christmas. Now not so much. Having experienced those changes in my teens and now hearing from my relatives, it seems to be a lot warmer than when I was a child. It's undeniable to me. I'm not sure about the UK because I've only been here for about 7 years, but the increased floods are what seem to be the trend.

It really worries me because not only is the science clear on this but I've experienced it first hand and people still deny it! What does it take for them to trust this before it's too late? Because when it hits them in the face it will be too late!

 

[Guy Threepwood]

we are not discussing a 'shift' over several thousands of years.....

I saw one documentary that tells of 'core' samples taken from high glaciers.....
turns out.....New York was under a glacier when the average temp was only 7degrees cooler

Now...since the invention of mass transportation and coal driven electric plants.....
the average temp has gone up 3degrees.....
in the past FIFTY years

we are doing this

well exactly, there was a mile+ of ice above my head where I sit, only a few thousand years ago- which utterly vanished without a single power station or SUV or hamburger. glaciers have been melting and retreating for nearly 20,000 years Pray this doesn't stop/ reverse anytime soon, or we will have a real crisis on our hands!

I'd be very wary of 'land based' temp records, they are hopelessly fudgable, incomplete, sporadically placed, especially 50 years ago, they can be 'calibrated' to show literally anything you want. usually about 3 degrees is picked over this sort of timescale, becasue it's as high as they can go without straining credibility too much- nobody would believe 6

If I drive from a farm field to o"Hare airport in Chicago, the temp will rise several degrees- so much I can feel it quite obviously. If land based weather stations were not recording this, something would be very wrong.
The only record we have that comes close to being an accurate measure of global temps, are the satellite measurements, which only date to 1979, and other than a couple of El Nino blips, show very little statistically significant warming, it's all well within a natural variation of a degree or two in either direction,


How are 'we' having any effect on climate, how do you think that works? Tell me you scientific understanding

 

[Thief]

well exactly,


How are 'we' having any effect on climate, how do you think that works? Tell me you scientific understanding

I see from your response...you're not really tacking on the scheme of things

it took several thousands of years to warm up enough for the ice to retreat as it did.
the change was only seven degrees
seven degrees............thousands of years

in my lifetime.....three degrees more

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I've had the same experience, being from Quebec. When I was little, it was pretty much a sure thing to have snow in November and a white Christmas. Now not so much. Having experienced those changes in my teens and now hearing from my relatives, it seems to be a lot warmer than when I was a child. It's undeniable to me. I'm not sure about the UK because I've only been here for about 7 years, but the increased floods are what seem to be the trend.

It really worries me because not only is the science clear on this but I've experienced it first hand and people still deny it! What does it take for them to trust this before it's too late? Because when it hits them in the face it will be too late!

2014–15 North American winter - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_North_American_winter
The 2014–15 North American winter refers to winter in as it occurred across the North American ...... In Quebec, Montreal experienced its coldest February on record with an extended cold spell and an average temperature of −15 °C (5 °F).

In fact, Environment Canada calls it the coldest February in Quebec history, with an average temperature of -15.3 C, while the daytime normal is actually -7.7 C.

Making it the coldest February since at least 1889.

Other parts of the province fared even worse, with Quebec City reporting a temperature of -17.8 C.

READ MORE: 7 ways to beat the winter blues in Montreal

Ottawa recorded its coldest-ever February as well, with an average temperature of -16.8 C, shattering the former record set in 1979.

In Toronto, it was the first February in 75 years where the temperature did not climb above the freezing mark.