• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

starlite

Texasgirl
And that in no way helps the discussion.
Why?
Because you are making a far to general statement about... well, nothing.

As I stated previously, "if" you believe that the Bible is God's way of speaking to us then you would accept Isaiah 48:17 which states that He(God) is the one teaching us to benefit ourselves. My intention in using these scriptures is: whatever situation we find ourselves in we can go to the Bible and find a solution.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
My intention in using these scriptures is: whatever situation we find ourselves in we can go to the Bible and find a solution.
Which is kinda odd, since that's not what the verse you quoted says. IMO, it's closer to this:

Everything that I, the author of 2 Timothy, consider to be scripture (which is probably just the Torah) is given to us by God and is instructive and useful in some way.

Even setting aside the question of "what is scripture", the verse only says that scripture is "given by God" and "profitable"; it doesn't say what you're now claiming, i.e. that scripture is sufficient.

"Everything in scripture is good" is not the same thing as "everything good is in scripture".
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
IMO, it's because the focus on homosexuality is based on personal prejudices, not a genuine desire to follow what they feel is God's will. They don't look to the Bible to guide their actions, they look to it to provide excuses for actions they've already decided upon.

:clap I really do have to laugh though, I have had so many quotes from the bible presented to me through this thread, which I do welcome I must add, but... no1 that provides these quotes have actually answered the question as to why the focus is there on homosexuality and not other sins.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
And I'd like to add to this: reading the book is not the same as reading the words from start to finish. It means contemplating each verse, paragraph, and chapter as they come, and thinking about what they mean in terms of literary and historical context.

Yes, I agree, which is why I was pointing out that you failed to do this yourself, as does anyone who quotes any part of Leviticus for any reason other than a chuckle at how backward and wrong-headed "God's Chosen People" were a few thousand years ago.

How do you propose to know anything about the context without reading the book from cover to cover, anyway? I mean, it's obvious that in this particular case you're quoting from a chapter you haven't read or contemplated contextually. You (or maybe your preacher) simply cherry-picked the single overtly anti-gay sentence fragment out of a giant, weighty tome you haven't read and are bandying it about with no contextual information. The question is, why? Doesn't it seem like an odd coincidence that your ostensibly perfect deity's feelings about homos exactly match your own personal feelings? Feelings which existed before somebody pointed out that verse for you? Could it be that you're just happy to find what looks at first blush (provided you don't look too closely) like a religious justification for your own personal feelings of discomfort with the idea of cuddling up with another man?
 
Last edited:

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Yes, I agree, which is why I was pointing out that you failed to do this yourself, as does anyone who quotes any part of Leviticus for any reason other than a chuckle at how backward and wrong-headed "God's Chosen People" were a few thousand years ago.

How do you propose to know anything about the context without reading the book from cover to cover, anyway? I mean, it's obvious that in this particular case you're quoting from a chapter you haven't read or contemplated contextually. You (or maybe your preacher) simply cherry-picked the single overtly anti-gay sentence fragment out of a giant, weighty tome you haven't read and are bandying it about with no contextual information. The question is, why? Doesn't it seem like an odd coincidence that your ostensibly perfect deity's feelings about homos exactly match your own personal feelings? Feelings which existed before somebody pointed out that verse for you? Could it be that you're just happy to find what looks at first blush (provided you don't look too closely) like a religious justification for your own personal feelings of discomfort with the idea of cuddling up with another man?

Are you talking to me or fanofchiefs?
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
As I stated previously, "if" you believe that the Bible is God's way of speaking to us then you would accept Isaiah 48:17 which states that He(God) is the one teaching us to benefit ourselves. My intention in using these scriptures is: whatever situation we find ourselves in we can go to the Bible and find a solution.
Seems to me that one must take severe liberties with what is actually written to come to those conclusions.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
LOL - how funny. fanofchiefs of course. Ideal moment for such a lapse, in the middle of a self-righteous lecture about careful reading. D'oh! :foot:

I hardly call my addition a "self-righteous lecture." :D I'd call it more of a hypocritical statement, as I'm only just now learning how to read carefully. lol

Nevertheless, I feel that it is important to state who it is you're talking to, if nothing else for the sake of those who aren't that good at reading. ^_^

BTW, I suspected you were talking to him, but I wanted to make sure.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I hardly call my addition a "self-righteous lecture." :D I'd call it more of a hypocritical statement, as I'm only just now learning how to read carefully. lol

Nevertheless, I feel that it is important to state who it is you're talking to, if nothing else for the sake of those who aren't that good at reading. ^_^

BTW, I suspected you were talking to him, but I wanted to make sure.

D'oh! I meant my self-righteous lecture, not yours. We have to stop meeting like this.

What confused me (this is going to sound stupid) was that your post started with "I want to add..." , and since I was thinking of the other guy's comments - that I was responding to - I thought it was him doing the adding.

But yeah, thanks for checking. Wouldn't want to accidentally pooh-pooh the wrong guy.
 

fanofchiefs

New Member
:clap I really do have to laugh though, I have had so many quotes from the bible presented to me through this thread, which I do welcome I must add, but... no1 that provides these quotes have actually answered the question as to why the focus is there on homosexuality and not other sins.

Some of it is the gay activists and media. It's a lightning rod subject. You'll never see the media cover the school boy that lied. Not newsworthy.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Colossians 2: 6-23


Freedom From Human Regulations Through Life With Christ

6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

******

The "ceremonial law" contains God's particular and time-bound directives on how he wanted to be worshiped by Old Testament Israel. The New Testament names several of these directives and tells us specifically that they do not apply to Christians. These include the sacrificial system (Hebrews 10:11-18), the festival calendar including the Sabbath (Galatians 4:9-11, Colossians 2:16-17), the dietary laws (Colossians 2:16-17), and the law of circumcision (Galatians 5:2-6).

By this logic....any condemnation on homosexuality is moot. But no where does your christ say that the laws should not be observed. In fact he says the opposite. He strongly admonished his followers to observe the laws and warned against anyone teaching the opposite.

You can't have the cake and eat it to. You can't say the OT laws don't apply to christians but then judge christians as well as the rest of humanity by those laws. This is hypocrisy....
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
By this logic....any condemnation on homosexuality is moot. But no where does your christ say that the laws should not be observed. In fact he says the opposite. He strongly admonished his followers to observe the laws and warned against anyone teaching the opposite.

You can't have the cake and eat it to. You can't say the OT laws don't apply to christians but then judge christians as well as the rest of humanity by those laws. This is hypocrisy....

That is not what he is saying. He is saying that some of those laws don't apply because they were given for a specific time, people and culture. It is the Paraclete who clarifies which is which and the Apostle Paul had the Paraclete which is why we see that He continues to condemn homosexuality as sin just as the OT did. Anyone living by the spirit of God will know that homosexuality is still a sin.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
That is not what he is saying.

Let him speak for himself. I don't need and interpreter to interpret what someone else is interpreting from what they're reading about some one else who interpreted those scriptures. it complicates matters.

........those laws don't apply because they were given for a specific time, people and culture.

And where in your four gospels did your Yeshua say this or even hint to this? Your Yeshua says the exact opposite from what you and your Paul are preaching.

Matthew 5:17-19
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them.

18 I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved.

19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.


Really.......!!!!......This is what he supposedly said.......Now you'd have us to believe that the laws of old don't apply when your own Messiah says they do....EVERY little one of them.



[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]It is the Paraclete who clarifies which is which and the Apostle Paul had the Paraclete which is why we see that He continues to condemn homosexuality as sin just as the OT did. Anyone living by the spirit of God will know that homosexuality is still a sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]

Complete conjecture......by you and the self appointed "apostle" Paul/Saul........Either way...picking and choosing what laws to follow is not something your own Messiah condoned.


[/FONT]
 
Last edited:

free spirit

Well-Known Member
Yes it is.
It is a matter of picking and choosing the moment you proclaimed that not all the laws were "fulfilled".

Yes all the laws were fulfilled by Jesus, and we in turn fulfill all the laws by being in Jesus. (Being in Jesus mean to live Christ-like) No sin in our life.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Yes, also swearing, cursing, laying, suicide, adultery, bestiality; they do not do harm to society and yet they are considered sin. because sin does harm to the integrity of your conscience.

Swearing and cursing is a waste of breath, and anyway is worthless these days. Lying can and does do harm. Suicide is cowardly. Adultery is a form of lying, unless there is full disclosure and consent. Bestiality is simply a tendency that some people have, and DOES often do harm to the animal.
 
Top