Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[idea]

I have it from a fairly reliable source that Christ Himself never said a word against homosexulaity.

Here is something Jesus said:
3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
(New Testament | Matthew 19:3 - 6)

Jesus was very pro hetero marriage.

In any event - behaviors are sins, not inclinations.

 

[Quagmire]

Here is something Jesus said:
3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
(New Testament | Matthew19:3 - 6)

Jesus was very pro hetero marriage.

In any event - behaviors are sins, not inclinations.

Nobodies arguing that Jesus was against heterosexual marraige.

 

[Storm]

Here is something Jesus said:
3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
(New Testament | Matthew19:3 - 6)

Jesus was very pro hetero marriage.

In any event - behaviors are sins, not inclinations.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Here is something Jesus said:

3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

So, the Pharisees, in an attempt to trick Jesus into giving the wrong answer, asked him if a man can divorce his wife for any reason.

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read

Here Jesus shows his knowledge of the law of divorce, also showing that he knows the Pharisees are trying to trick him.

that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
(New Testament | Matthew19:3 - 6)

So Jesus answered the question asked of him, and showed the Pharisees that he in fact did know about the laws of divorce. As divorce only concerned heterosexuals at that time, there is no mention for or against homosexuality.

 

[Riverwolf]

Here is something Jesus said:
3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
(New Testament | Matthew19:3 - 6)

Jesus was very pro hetero marriage.

Of course he was; he was Jewish, and here is quoting a passage in Genesis.

I can guarantee that if he were born in this time, he would probably be indifferent if someone chose to be in a loving homosexual relationship.

 

[free spirit]

So, the Pharisees, in an attempt to trick Jesus into giving the wrong answer, asked him if a man can divorce his wife for any reason.




Here Jesus shows his knowledge of the law of divorce, also showing that he knows the Pharisees are trying to trick him.



So Jesus answered the question asked of him, and showed the Pharisees that he in fact did know about the laws of divorce. As divorce only concerned heterosexuals at that time, there is no mention for or against homosexuality.

Homosexuality has no need to be mentioned because there are sins and abominations, as you know the woman court in adultery was going to be stoned according to the law of Moses, and she was guilty of a sin. but committing an abomination there would be no question of sin, he or she would have been stoned on sight, but now we are not under the law of Moses, but we are under the grace of Christ, therefore those sinners have been given graceful time to repent, and if they do not want to repent is up to them, all we Christian can do is telling them that they will die in their sin.

 

[Mr Cheese]

not at all, but i know sin.

1And at dawn he came again to the temple,

2and all the people were coming unto him, and having sat down, he was teaching them;
3and the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman having been taken in adultery, and having set her in the midst,
4they say to him, `Teacher, this woman was taken in the very crime -- committing adultery,
5and in the law, Moses did command us that such be stoned; thou, therefore, what dost thou say?'
6and this they said, trying him, that they might have to accuse him. And Jesus, having stooped down, with the finger he was writing on the ground,
7and when they continued asking him, having bent himself back, he said unto them, `The sinless of you -- let him first cast the stone at her;'
8and again having stooped down, he was writing on the ground, 9and they having heard, and by the conscience being convicted, were going forth one by one, having begun from the elders -- unto the last; and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

...........


1`Judge not, that ye may not be judged,
2for in what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and in what measure ye measure, it shall be measured to you.
3`And why dost thou behold the mote that [is] in thy brother's eye, and the beam that [is] in thine own eye dost not consider?
4or, how wilt thou say to thy brother, Suffer I may cast out the mote from thine eye, and lo, the beam [is] in thine own eye? 5Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Homosexuality has no need to be mentioned because there are sins and abominations, as you know the woman court in adultery was going to be stoned according to the law of Moses, and she was guilty of a sin. but committing an abomination there would be no question of sin, he or she would have been stoned on sight, but now we are not under the law of Moses, but we are under the grace of Christ, therefore those sinners have been given graceful time to repent, and if they do not want to repent is up to them, all we Christian can do is telling them that they will die in their sin.

The simple fact that these "abominations" are actually NEVER mentioned by Jesus HIMSELF, only OTHER Biblical figures (and as has already been mentioned this is questionable) does not lend weight to your arguement.

Of course if you are prepared to admit you don't actually follow Jesus' teachings, well then that again is another story.

When God gave the Torah to the Israelites, He opened the seven heavens to them and they saw that nothing was really there but His glory; He opened the seven worlds (or “earths”) to them and they saw nothing there but His glory; He opened the seven abysses (or “hells”) before their eyes and they saw nothing there but His glory.

Moses De Leon



“Just as we have a superficial, external mask which we put together with words and actions that do not fully represent all that is in us, so even believers deal with a God who is made up of words, feelings, reassuring slogans, and this is less the God of faith than the product of religious and social routine. Such a ‘God’ can become a substitute for the truth of the invisible God of faith, and though this comforting image may seem real to us, he is really a kind of idol. His chief function is to protect us against a deep encounter with our true inner self and with the true God.”

Thomas Merton

 

[Enlighten]

Homosexuality has no need to be mentioned because there are sins and abominations, as you know the woman court in adultery was going to be stoned according to the law of Moses, and she was guilty of a sin. but committing an abomination there would be no question of sin, he or she would have been stoned on sight, but now we are not under the law of Moses, but we are under the grace of Christ, therefore those sinners have been given graceful time to repent, and if they do not want to repent is up to them, all we Christian can do is telling them that they will die in their sin.

But is this not also casting judgement on someone??

EDIT: Just noticed Mr Cheese has also mentioned this. Sorry I should have read to the end.

 

[Mr Cheese]

But is this not also casting judgement on someone??

EDIT: Just noticed Mr Cheese has also mentioned this. Sorry I should have read to the end.

When God gave the Torah to the Israelites, He opened the seven heavens to them and they saw that nothing was really there but His glory; He opened the seven worlds (or “earths”) to them and they saw nothing there but His glory; He opened the seven abysses (or “hells”) before their eyes and they saw nothing there but His glory.

Moses De Leon

This passage illustrates that ALL is God...thus homosexuality is of God also.
Thus any concern of it being wrong or right is also of God, not mr "free spirit"

 

[Enlighten]

When God gave the Torah to the Israelites, He opened the seven heavens to them and they saw that nothing was really there but His glory; He opened the seven worlds (or “earths”) to them and they saw nothing there but His glory; He opened the seven abysses (or “hells”) before their eyes and they saw nothing there but His glory.

Moses De Leon

This passage illustrates that ALL is God...thus homosexuality is of God also.
Thus any concern of it being wrong or right is also of God, not mr "free spirit"

Yep! I have been through this debate before in this thread somewhere (I tried to have a look for it but the thread is so long I gave up), but I guess some people see something different when they read that God is ALL.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but we are under the grace of Christ, therefore those sinners have been given graceful time to repent, and if they do not want to repent is up to them, all we Christian can do is telling them that they will die in their sin.

I would much rather burn in hell for being who I was born as, than beg forgivness and be ashamed of it. Even if it ment being put to death in this life.

 

[free spirit]

I would much rather burn in hell for being who I was born as, than beg forgivness and be ashamed of it. Even if it ment being put to death in this life.

You are giving me a new prospective because if the flesh has that much power over you, you truly need a miracle to suppress that which holds you captive. You have my sympathy and prayers.

 

[Enlighten]

You are giving me a new prospective because if the flesh has that much power over you, you truly need a miracle to suppress that which holds you captive. You have my sympathy and prayers.

Why would you have sympathy for someone who is happy to be as they are born?

 

[free spirit]

Why would you have sympathy for someone who is happy to be as they are born?

I would much rather burn in hell for being who I was born as,

I do not see happiness in the above Quote

 

[Enlighten]

I do not see happiness in the above Quote

I see happiness, he is happy for being who is is and he doesn't want to change for anyone.

EDIT: if you take what he said in full: "I would much rather burn in hell for being who I was born as, than beg forgivness and be ashamed of it. Even if it ment being put to death in this life."

 

[Enlighten]

Just as a rant in general, why do so many people look at the negative? (I think I have said this before)

 

[Quagmire]

You are giving me a new prospective because if the flesh has that much power over you, you truly need a miracle to suppress that which holds you captive. You have my sympathy and prayers.

And you truly need to learn to suppress your compulsive proselytizing. :yes:

 

[Riverwolf]

You are giving me a new prospective because if the flesh has that much power over you, you truly need a miracle to suppress that which holds you captive. You have my sympathy and prayers.

What's captive here? Seems perfectly free, to me.

Besides... you should know that many non-Christian beliefs teach renunciation of passing fleshly pleasures.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are giving me a new prospective because if the flesh has that much power over you, you truly need a miracle to suppress that which holds you captive. You have my sympathy and prayers.

I am happy. I am free. The flesh is indeed weak. However, the mind is a very powerful thing. I have my pride, and I am not ashamed of being who I am. I've quoted this a hundred times, and I will quote it again.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. "
Robert Neitzche
If God has a problem with me being who I am, then I have a problem with God.