Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[free spirit]

1And at dawn he came again to the temple,

2and all the people were coming unto him, and having sat down, he was teaching them;
3and the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman having been taken in adultery, and having set her in the midst,
4they say to him, `Teacher, this woman was taken in the very crime -- committing adultery,
5and in the law, Moses did command us that such be stoned; thou, therefore, what dost thou say?'
6and this they said, trying him, that they might have to accuse him. And Jesus, having stooped down, with the finger he was writing on the ground,
7and when they continued asking him, having bent himself back, he said unto them, `The sinless of you -- let him first cast the stone at her;'
8and again having stooped down, he was writing on the ground, 9and they having heard, and by the conscience being convicted, were going forth one by one, having begun from the elders -- unto the last; and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Two more verses and you would have presented the full story, why didn't you?
...........

1`Judge not, that ye may not be judged,
2for in what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and in what measure ye measure, it shall be measured to you.
3`And why dost thou behold the mote that [is] in thy brother's eye, and the beam that [is] in thine own eye dost not consider?
4or, how wilt thou say to thy brother, Suffer I may cast out the mote from thine eye, and lo, the beam [is] in thine own eye? 5Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I never judge the person, for how can a sinner judge a sinner; but I judge the act to be sin. And i point it out, like pointing out a dangerous explosive mine, if you consider my warning worse-less then just ignore me.

 

[free spirit]

I am happy. I am free. The flesh is indeed weak. However, the mind is a very powerful thing. I have my pride, and I am not ashamed of being who I am. I've quoted this a hundred times, and I will quote it again.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. "
Robert Neitzche
If God has a problem with me being who I am, then I have a problem with God.

Well I know now that you have no problem with sin, the problem is in me who dare to care.

 

[blackout]

I am happy. I am free. The flesh is indeed weak. However, the mind is a very powerful thing. I have my pride, and I am not ashamed of being who I am. I've quoted this a hundred times, and I will quote it again.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. "
Robert Neitzche
If God has a problem with me being who I am, then I have a problem with God.

Wonderful post. :rainbow1:

 

[starlite]

Shadow Wolf,

But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. "
Robert Neitzche
Question is....in what sense do you own yourself? According to scripture, you were bought with a price (the blood of Christ) and so God owns you, right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Question is....in what sense do you own yourself? According to scripture, you were bought with a price (the blood of Christ) and so God owns you, right?

But, if god has an issue with me being transsexual or gay, then why should I want him to own me? I was born that way, and thus, I refuse to beg forgivness for something of which is no fault of my own.
I own myself because I do not need God, Scripture, anything or anyone to guide me or tell me what to do. I do believe that a higher power does exists, but, I do not need such a being(s) just to live out my life.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well I know now that you have no problem with sin, the problem is in me who dare to care.

I see no sin in Shadow Wolf's statement.

Perhaps you could point it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well I know now that you have no problem with sin, the problem is in me who dare to care.

The problem is not in you, nor in me.

 

[free spirit]

To Mr Cheese

When God gave the Torah to the Israelites, He opened the seven heavens to them and they saw that nothing was really there but His glory; He opened the seven worlds (or “earths&#8221 to them and they saw nothing there but His glory; He opened the seven abysses (or “hells&#8221 before their eyes and they saw nothing there but His glory.

Moses De Leon

No one can argue with that; Just consider this, the laws that your country work with came from your benevolent government, and they are righteous and just, and these laws are there to protect you: This equate to the love and glory of God. but if you break one of those laws you make yourself an enemy of the laws, in other words you make yourself an enemy of the government; therefore you will be punished, this equate to the wrath of God or hell to be exact. So the glory of your government's laws are everywhere, and so its wrath. We are required to be wise in our choosing what we do.
In Romans 13: 1 to 4, we read:
1 Let every person be in subjection to the governing authority. For there is no authority except from God, and those, which exist, are established by God.
2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God, and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behaviour, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same,
4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil."

But if the government breaks the moral law of God, it also in time will be punished and conquered by forces stronger that itself. God rewards the moral integrity of those in government.

This passage illustrates that ALL is God...thus homosexuality is of God also.
Thus any concern of it being wrong or right is also of God, not mr "free spirit"

If you are saying that good and evil is of God you are not correct, but if you are saying that blessing and punishments are of God you are correct. Wisdom is to know the difference.

 

[Enlighten]

So we can now equate the love from the government to the love from God?

 

[free spirit]

So we can now equate the love from the government to the love from God?

We were created in the image of God, So the good that we do is in his image, but the evil that we do is not in his image because God cannot do evil.
According to scripture governments are also in the image of God with its laws for our good, but if the government become corrupt or immoral it will be removed by the righteous people that elects them, or by a foreign power, or suffers economical decline, all human endeavor's are linked to good and evil, or reward and punishment. some of our actions are judged in this life, but some after this life, so justice is slow but it gets there.

 

[free spirit]

But, if god has an issue with me being transsexual or gay, then why should I want him to own me? I was born that way, and thus, I refuse to beg forgivness for something of which is no fault of my own.
I own myself because I do not need God, Scripture, anything or anyone to guide me or tell me what to do. I do believe that a higher power does exists, but, I do not need such a being(s) just to live out my life.

We are free and own ourselves when we are free and able to choose what to do, and that is the way God like us to be. But if we choose to became alcoholic we are no longer free, because the alcohol as made us its slave.
So we can be free like the alcoholic man that says, I have a drinking problem, I have ran out of bear. Yes in is own way he is free to drink himself to the grave. But we can also became slaves of straight sex, perverted sex, workaholic, possessive of our spouse, greed, or any other thing you like to ad. freedom for me is nothing owns me but God, for he is the giver of life, and I exist because of him.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So we can be free like the alcoholic man that says, I have a drinking problem, I have ran out of bear. Yes in is own way he is free to drink himself to the grave. But we can also became slaves of straight sex, perverted sex, workaholic, possessive of our spouse, greed, or any other thing you like to ad. freedom for me is nothing owns me but God, for he is the giver of life, and I exist because of him.

Maybe you should talk in depth of what it is like for a gay person to be living in denial. The chains that weigh down the burden of denial are very heavy indeed. But comming to terms with ones self, the chains begin to break, and starting to live as oneself only breaks more chains. It's not about being "a slave to sex" or a slave to anything really. It's about not being a slave to societies whims, breaking free of it's control, and living as a free person knowing who you are, and being comfortable with because it is the way you were made. We certainlly cannot control how our brains and bodies develop as we are fetuses. And how many people who are born physically handicapped would seek forgivness for it? They don't, and such a notion is absurd. So why should anyone in the GLBT community seek forgivness for simply being who we are born as?

 

[Riverwolf]

We are free and own ourselves when we are free and able to choose what to do, and that is the way God like us to be. But if we choose to became alcoholic we are no longer free, because the alcohol as made us its slave.
So we can be free like the alcoholic man that says, I have a drinking problem, I have ran out of bear. Yes in is own way he is free to drink himself to the grave. But we can also became slaves of straight sex, perverted sex, workaholic, possessive of our spouse, greed, or any other thing you like to ad. freedom for me is nothing owns me but God, for he is the giver of life, and I exist because of him.

So homosexuals are not free because they are addicted to homosexual sex?

Since when?

 

[DallasApple]

So homosexuals are not free because they are addicted to homosexual sex?

Since when?

Lesbien couples (from the research I did) have the least amount of sexual partners and sexual encounters (over a lifetime) than that of any other "combination".

So if they are "addicts" I'de like to join whatevr 12 step program they follow.sounds like it works.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

As a non-believer I do not regard the Bible or any other sacred text to be anything other than a product of the minds of men, though I doubt that's any comfort. Even so, I'd like to argue that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, but it does. In Genesis, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because their people practiced homosexuality, sodomy to be precise, the very word is derived from Sodom.

Also another way of thinking is that it was "heterosexuals" engaging in the rape of other heterosexuals..of the same sex or otherwise..Crimes.

Not consensual sex.

Love

Dallas

 

[free spirit]

Maybe you should talk in depth of what it is like for a gay person to be living in denial. The chains that weigh down the burden of denial are very heavy indeed.

I do not need to talk in depth to gay persons to know what it is like to suffer the pangs of denial, because I my self was slave of straight sex, and when my wife and I separated, was either suffer the pains of denial or commit adultery. that time of my life was not easy, but with the Lord's help I was able to subdue the urges of the flesh, I have been set free from these chains, it is hard, but you are not alone in that struggle, Jesus in Luke 9: 23, asks his disciples, "if anyone wishes to come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily, and follow me." as you can see he said "if anyone wishes" He lets you decide but the flesh and sin does not. we read in genesis 4: 7, if you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? and if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

But comming to terms with ones self, the chains begin to break, and starting to live as oneself only breaks more chains. It's not about being "a slave to sex" or a slave to anything really. It's about not being a slave to societies whims, breaking free of it's control, and living as a free person knowing who you are, and being comfortable with because it is the way you were made.
We certainlly cannot control how our brains and bodies develop as we are fetuses. And how many people who are born physically handicapped would seek forgivness for it? They don't, and such a notion is absurd. So why should anyone in the GLBT community seek forgivness for simply being who we are born as?

Many people go to nudist colonies to be free from their clause, others swap wifes, for why should only have one partner, the list is endless, they all seek freedom from societies whims. what they do not realize is that by abandoning themselves to moral lawlessness they are killing their conscience; in other words they are distancing their life from God's reason, to get closer to the life's of animal inhibited instinct.

 

[Riverwolf]

Many people go to nudist colonyes to be free from their clouse, others swop wifes, for why should only have one partener, the list is endless, they all seek freedom. what they do not realise is that by abandoning themselves to moral lawlesness they are killing their conscience; in ather words they distance their life from God's reason and get closer to the animal automatic ineibited instint.

...animal automatic ineibited instint...?

You REALLY need to start proofreading your posts before submitting them.

Anyway, what you're describing doesn't include homosexual love; it's about sexual promiscuity and addiction. I agree that addiction to ANYTHING is harmful.

It's all about finding Happiness. I tell you the truth that people who are homosexual WILL NEVER HAVE JOY in a heterosexual relationship. They will suffer as you suffered.

 

[free spirit]

...animal automatic inhibited instint...?

You REALLY need to start proofreading your posts before submitting them.

sorry about that:faint:
Anyway, what you're describing doesn't include homosexual love; it's about sexual promiscuity and addiction. I agree that addiction to ANYTHING is harmful.

It's all about finding Happiness. I tell you the truth that people who are homosexual WILL NEVER HAVE JOY in a heterosexual relationship. They will suffer as you suffered.

During that time, every day was a struggle to get to the next, until the urge subsided, now I am in control and not the fleshly instincts, now I am truly free. Agape love does not need sex, agape love is an unselfishness way to give to another person your affection and care. I did believe that by having sex with my wife I was loving her, but now I have discovered a deeper love for her, a pure love, i have discovered agape love, I see the world in a different light.

 

[DallasApple]

sorry about that:faint:
Anyway, what you're describing doesn't include homosexual love; it's about sexual promiscuity and addiction. I agree that addiction to ANYTHING is harmful.


During that time, every day was a struggle to get to the next, until the urge subsided, now I am in control and not the fleshly instincts, now I am truly free. Agape love does not need sex, agape love is an unselfishness way to give to another person your affection and care. I did believe that by having sex with my wife I was loving her, but now I have discovered a deeper love for her, a pure love, i have discovered agape love, I see the world in a different light.

Thats a cop out..

YOU get to "decide " that havign sex with your wife is some sort of "higher agape love".

From a birds eye view Im sorry..its just going to look like plain old humping..and in fact you are getting your sexual rocks off..So how DARE your tell other people that what you have they dont?

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

sorry about that:faint:
Anyway, what you're describing doesn't include homosexual love; it's about sexual promiscuity and addiction. I agree that addiction to ANYTHING is harmful.


During that time, every day was a struggle to get to the next, until the urge subsided, now I am in control and not the fleshly instincts, now I am truly free. Agape love does not need sex, agape love is an unselfishness way to give to another person your affection and care. I did believe that by having sex with my wife I was loving her, but now I have discovered a deeper love for her, a pure love, i have discovered agape love, I see the world in a different light.

Oh wait ..Im sorry are you saying you do NOT have sex with your wife?

Love

Dallas