Suicide ??

[Shushersbedamned]

A lot of them are unsuccessful because the person chose a method that has a higher risk of failing, such as using a rifle or shotgun. And, yes, a good number of those who survived an attempt will state they realized they didn't want to die. But are you really going to question someone's determinedness to die when they tightened a noose around their own neck?

Yes. I believe it is necessary to take facts into account.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Assuming you have, where am I wrong?

By generalizing suicide into an "easy solution." Those who attempt it often have tried to cope, they have tried to fix things, and they have sloughed forward. Eventually you hit a point where neither life nor death are simple or easy, but death promises an end to suffering.
The only thing easy is to sit back and make crude judgements when you have never been through such a thing. It's not easy to think "I've been through all this. I'm going to kill myself." But once you do, it can start to become more of an attractive and viable option.

 

[stvdv]

The ones lacking empathy are the most disturbing. A lack of knowledge and understanding is one thing, but the generalized statements that belittle those who have been or are suicidal are rather remarkable that someone has such a lack of concern for their fellow humans. And here I thought I was empathy impaired.

No shadowWolf you are not empathy impaired.

For me it were the ones who created this "willingness to suicide" in me, who were empathy impaired.
And there are quite a few these days. And this goes synchronous with many narcissists nowadays lacking empathy. All makes sense now.
And the way to feel myself better now is to show those people the truth. That they are just insensitive. They might look at me as "poor guy". But it's clearly the other way around. Poor them, lacking empathy. At least I am full of empathy, and I am grateful for that.

 

[Jesster]

Do you think depression is something externally triggered or is it more seen as a chemical imbalance that has to be dealt with by drugs?

It can be both. Genetic traits and chemical imbalances seem to bring about a high risk factor. External events can worsen it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you think depression is something externally triggered or is it more seen as a chemical imbalance that has to be dealt with by drugs?

Does it matter what someone "thinks" when we have facts to show it is a complexed interaction between biology and environment? And it's not dealt with by drugs. That's a misconception that is very rampant throughout society. It's far more accurate to think of drugs as a crutch rather than a fix.

 

[Nakosis]

The word "easy" is wrong to start with. Lacking total understanding [=feeling, empathy] of what is going on in the other.

Sure, but feelings, empathy don't usually accurate identify the causes. Relying on feelings rarely provide solutions.

In easy I mean an easy way to take back control. In fact it's impossible to take control of the world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes. I believe it is necessary to take facts into account.

You have a most peculiar way of showing this.

 

[osgart]

Futility, loneliness, meaninglessness, lack of self worth, and circumstances beyond ones control, or seemingly so. Arent the reasons obvious why people go over the edge.

Is it a societal problem, or a societal evil where only the successful people matter, and the ones slaving it out have to live desparate lives?

My father used to say if you dont work, you dont eat. How much suicide is related to work values? Is it societys fault that people end up poor or helpless? Is it societys fault that some people dont have any work values? Is it societys fault that some people are overburdened, and overworked? Or is it personal failure?

And should society provide opportunity as a right? Should everyone get treated with respect?

What do we do about people who fail in life? Failure is better then not making the effort. Right now theres a ton of people living in desparation, or even worse as victims of abuse.

All the reasons for suicide are out there, all one has to do is look.

Suicide is a terrible choice though! And society doesnt really address the issue at all.

 

[Nakosis]

It can be both. Genetic traits and chemical imbalances seem to bring about a high risk factor. External events can worsen it.

Ok, it must make life difficult to not have control over one's emotions.

 

[Nakosis]

Does it matter what someone "thinks" when we have facts to show it is a complexed interaction between biology and environment? And it's not dealt with by drugs. That's a misconception that is very rampant throughout society. It's far more accurate to think of drugs as a crutch rather than a fix.

I would think so to but I'm asking a person who has suffered from depression. I suffer from other physical ailments that really kind of **** me off that I have to rely on drugs for. According to the doctors, the cause is genetics. Most folks think diets or exercise, or counseling of some kind sure cure the problem. This is not always the case. Most folks don't really understand this and make assumptions. So I ask.

If you have any personal insight on chronic depression I'd be interested in what you have to say about it as well.

 

[Jesster]

Ok, it must make life difficult to not have control over one's emotions.

Sure, it does. On one hand, depression is more of a deadening of emotions. On the other hand, a good spread of emotions is healthy. When you're dead to emotions, it's hard to find any drive. Why get up in the morning when you could be sleeping it all away instead? When you do end up feeling a bit of emotion, you cling to it no matter what form it takes until it ends up hurting you.

The one positive thing I have taken from it, though, is what I consider a grounded view of the world. Maybe it's just easier to see things clearly from the outside. It's made me very introspective as well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok, it must make life difficult to not have control over one's emotions.

Very much so. I'm still dealing with the fallout over my own recent decline (which included a thought of killing myself), and I pretty much have no motivation to do anything, I get panic attacks when out in public, I sleep a lot, and I've even regressed in social functioning. I'm constantly on edge, very easily agitated, and tend to feel nothing more than anything. And, basically, my doctor told "me" that I need "me" time to recuperate because I was on the verge on a serious and major mental breakdown.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm feeling the sudden urge to link to this thread in light of some of the directions conversations have taken in here...

PSA - Mental Health

 

[stvdv]

Sure, but feelings, empathy don't usually accurate identify the causes. Relying on feelings rarely provide solutions.
In easy I mean an easy way to take back control. In fact it's impossible to take control of the world.

The word "easy" is still wrong. And the other line about feelings, empathy is completely wrong. Have to disappoint you again.

Feelings, empathy perfectly identify the causes. Being in tune with your feelings is the only way to get out. Because the cause of suicide is exactly that the person was denied his/her feelings at very young age. That's what it is all about with suicide. If you were denied your feelings, what is the use to live? Maybe there are other causes also, but this is a major one IMO.

First the one wanting to commit suicide needs to get back in contact with his feelings. Yes we have to love even the feeling that we feel sh*it, and accept the feeling "that we really want to commit suicide". When you are that far, then cure is possible.

Suppressing your feeling is like being a time-bomb. Any time in future it might go of.

 

[Jesster]

I'm feeling the sudden urge to link to this thread in light of some of the directions conversations have taken in here...

PSA - Mental Health

Thank you for that

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you have any personal insight on chronic depression I'd be interested in what you have to say about it as well.

It's an emotional black hole. It doesn't have to be forever, but it's very difficult to get out of. When I was suicidal, one of the things it took to get rid of the suicidal ideations was changing religion.
Today, how I have been describing my emotion state leading up to now is feeling like I was afloat at sea, being tossed about like a rag doll from the waves of choppy waters of a storm, and starting to feel to tired to keep on fighting them and just succumb to it. Now I feel like I washed up on a shore, stuck on a remote and deserted island, still coming to, still trying to make heads from tails over the situation, still trying to figure out how to keep going on. But at least it is a "how to move on." Only a week ago I was still in such excruciating physical pain that it was a question of if I want to keep going.

 

[Nakosis]

By generalizing suicide into an "easy solution." Those who attempt it often have tried to cope, they have tried to fix things, and they have sloughed forward. Eventually you hit a point where neither life nor death are simple or easy, but death promises an end to suffering.
The only thing easy is to sit back and make crude judgements when you have never been through such a thing. It's not easy to think "I've been through all this. I'm going to kill myself." But once you do, it can start to become more of an attractive and viable option.

I think you are making my case for me. I'm not saying it's easy to get to that point. After trying everything else, it the one thing you can take full control over.

 

[stvdv]

I think you are making my case for me. I'm not saying it's easy to get to that point. After trying everything else, it the one thing you can take full control over.

Empathy for someone is not about "winning the case". That is called debating. It's about feeling, compassion AND understanding how they feel. But if you have never been there, listening might be better than "thinking/wording what suicide is all about".

And she was not making the case for you. You still missed it.

 

[Quintessence]

Also going to follow up with these things too:

• When someone talks about wanting to die, always take it seriously. I get it, people use language way too casually nowadays. Never, ever assume someone is being casual if they say something that implies they're considering ending their own lives. Don't be one of those people who contributes to casual usage of suicide references. It's not cool to be casual about it... it's the same level of stupid as screaming "fire!" when there isn't one.
• People who attempt suicide are not crazy. They're people in pain, and they are people who are suffering. There are many terrible and unreasonable stigmas surrounding mental illness, and the "they're just crazy" garbage needs to go. Blaming the victim is never a good way to go about helping someone in need, and calling someone crazy has that effect.
• People who commit suicide frequently communicate their intent beforehand. Don't believe the "it came out of the blue" nonsense. As culture, we ignore the signs and aren't comfortable talking about it. We're afraid to directly ask someone "are you thinking of killing yourself?" That needs to go also. Suicidal people are often relieved to be able to talk about it. It means someone cared enough to notice they are hurting!

In short, don't be a jerk. Good general advice, but even more important on the subject of suicide. And if you can't help yourself from being a jerk, kindly remove yourself from the situation so that those of us who aren't can lend a hand.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Empathy for someone is not about "winning the case". That is called debating. It's about feeling, compassion AND understanding how they feel. But if you have never been there, listening might be better than "thinking/wording what suicide is all about".

And she was not making the case for you. You still missed it.

I think what they meant is that she described the sort of thing they were trying to explain and that the
description and his point coincided.