SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Read the indictments. That should help answer your question.
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Supreme Court to Decide Whether to Kick Trump Off Ballot
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Good thing no one running for President has done that.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Just Trump.
Wrong. The XIV Amendment doesn't apply to Trump because of the following:
1) He never participated in any insurrection.
2) Trump has never been in Congress nor been an "officer of the United States". (President is not an officer of the United States)
It's almost like some people believe in doing the right thing whether or not it's politically expedient.
Regardless of whether he's disqualified (I don't think he will), running Trump is about the dumbest thing the GOP could do. I guess they want a repeat of 2020. Oh well, I guess they enjoy losing.
See attached.
Soandso
ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
Could you provide a little more context as to what this is, exactly?
It's a paper published in a legal journal arguing that the 14th amendment disqualifies Trump from running for President.
Soandso
ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
Thanks!
It's not so simple.
Trump appears ineligible to serve again as
President,based upon his treasonous acts.
What Trump Asked of Pence - FactCheck.org
In an interview hours after former President Donald Trump was indicted for an alleged conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election, one of his attorneys said that all Trump had ultimately asked his vice president to do was "simply pause” the Electoral College count at the U.S. Capitol...
US election: Trump tells Georgia election official to 'find' votes to overturn Biden win
The US president pressures Brad Raffensperger in an audio recording released by the Washington Post.
Every Capitol Rioter Who Has Said Donald Trump Incited Them
At least 13 people have named the former president as a reason for them allegedly storming the Capitol on January 6.
www.newsweek.com
He appears subject to the constitutional prohibition
against insurrectionists serving in office.
Excerpted...
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:— "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."[2]
Is the President an “officer of the United States” for purposes of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment?
Update: In December 2021, Seth and I published an article in the NYU Journal of Law & Liberty, based on...
reason.com
The structure of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment is a bit complicated. Section 3 provides:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
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Forgive my ignorance, not American.It's almost like some people believe in doing the right thing whether or not it's politically expedient.
Regardless of whether he's disqualified (I don't think he will), running Trump is about the dumbest thing the GOP could do. I guess they want a repeat of 2020. Oh well, I guess they enjoy losing.
If Trump is polling fairly high in the GOP base compared to his opponents in said base (which is what everyone keeps telling me) then really what are they supposed to do? Realistically I mean.
I mean, presuming Trump isn’t disqualified (again not American so I don’t know how that works for you guys, per se) who can they run to not only draw from Trump’s base but find some independent supporters?
Is this just a lost cause? Or can they run someone else?
I’m merely curious
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I doubt if you did. You are probably mistaken.I already did.
PBS broke those individuals charges down.
Where the criminal cases against Trump stand
A guide to each federal and state case facing Donald Trump, who’s also the current Republican front-runner in the 2024 presidential race.www.pbs.org
I'd be more interested in how the prosecution is going to make their own serious argument.
At least this trial will be televised answering both our questions.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
This will almost certainly be settled before it gets to that point. Lawsuits will or already have been filed. They will be appealed regardless of outcome and work their way to the Supreme Court. Now that is a bit worrisome since the USSC has not been following the Constitution lately. They have supported their personal beliefs (there are 6 Republican nominees), rather than what the Constitution says or what they promised to do when nominated. Though the Court may try to correct their past errors by ruling against Trump in this case. There is that hope. At any rate this would be before the convention and people are going to be running all the way to the end so even if Trump has it sewn up they should be able to choose another candidate.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But he did. You forgot his speech on January 6 where he lied to the crowd. Urged them to action. And promised that he would march with them. All lies of course.
The President is an "officer of the United States". This is even more laughable and ignorant than your first claim.
I think much will depend on the outcome of this and the other court cases pending against Trump at the moment. That's what makes the upcoming election season such a sad manure show. I doubt there will be much attention to the actual issues, and instead it'll be like a bad miniseries. "Trump: The Trial" - along with the theme song from Perry Mason.
I think the Supreme Court would have to make the determination as to whether Trump is qualified or not, at least in terms of how they interpret the Constitution on this matter.
I guess another embarrassment in all of this is that he still seems to score pretty high in the polls. That is kind of odd, possibly meaning that his supporters don't believe he's guilty and this is all a railroad job by the "deep state."
Or maybe they do believe he's guilty and really don't care, since they just want him in office anyway. Probably a bit of both.
I won't say that the motives for bringing Trump to trial are political. If they have enough for an indictment, then it's a serious legal matter. Nevertheless, the ramifications will be political just the same. If Trump is found guilty, then his support dwindles and the Democrats win. If Trump is found not guilty, then his support will likely increase and it could possibly lead to his victory.
We're in for some tough times.
In the most recent poll that just came out, Nikki Haley performed best against Biden. She or Chris Christie would probably draw moderates but still sufficiently satisfy conservatives. IMHO.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Oh, so you're judge & jury, are ya? Seems that many in his former staff don't agree with you. Or is it that this is what you are parroting from the likes of Fox? Just a question, mind you.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
1. Trump is to the J6 Insurrection what Charles Manson is to the Tate murders. He conspired and preplanned the attack with others and, according to his own Secret Service detail who were with him on Jan 6th, he demanded to be driven to the Capitol to be with his rabid minions. He became violent when the agents refused to take him there.
He also was, rightly, impeached on the charge of incitement of insurrection. If the Republicans weren't a bunch of power-hungry cretins and had done their job just once in their lives, his ineligibility to run again would be obvious even to his most delusional apologists.
2. He's nailed by #1. Obviously, the writers never fathomed that a POTUS would be a terrorist who'd lead a conspiracy to overthrow the Republic. Amendment XIV, Section 3 prohibits any person who had gone to war against the Union or given aid and comfort to the country's enemies from running for federal or state office. Disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, attacking law enforcement officers (so much for their alleged solidarity with the Thin Blue line), literally erecting a gallows with the intent to execute Pence (whom Trump claimed in his Tweets "deserved it"), seeking to physically harm or worse any official they managed to get their hands on of either party certainly makes them and Trump enemies of the State. Full stop.
He absolutely is not only a co-conspirator but also the chief insurrectionist.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
"or elector OF President and Vice-President" means the elector chosen from each state to formally select the President and Vice President.
The meaning of "officer" at the time the Amendment was ratified is one who's appointed, not elected. E.g., POTUS appoints certain officers.
However,
“No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”
POTUS is Commander In Chief of the armed forces and Trump wanted to invoke martial law and use the military to advance his attempted coup:
Trump Reportedly Asked Advisors About Deploying Military To Overturn Election
Trump wanted troops to protect his supporters at Jan. 6 rally
The guy is pure filth and far more anti-American than any other of the world's despots. He's just a wanna-be but is a lot dumber than the ones who've succeeded.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Thanks for the clarification.
Wasn't this originally written so confederate traitors could be barred from from running for public office?
Just curious.