Supreme Court to Decide Whether to Kick Trump Off Ballot

[Subduction Zone]

However, "well organized" implies "well regulated", and it's the state that did and does do that unless they're federalized. A state would not be so self-threatening to its own existence by not "organizing" such a military force that otherwise could be a threat to the state's own existence.

Not now. Back then things were looser. I would look at all of the amendment and not focus on any particular part of it. I was just correcting the "well regulated" claim. That was when our nation was still a baby. Our army was almost nonexistent. The purpose of the amendment was to ensure that we had a means of defense for this country. Back the a "well regulated militia" was necessary for the security of a free State. That is no longer needed and is highly likely never going to be needed again. The potential threat to our country from armed invaders is over (though I am keeping my eyes on Canada). When one looks at it in its totality the amendment is no longer needed and therefore there is no longer a reason not to infringe (which we already do to quite an extent) ones ability to keep and bear arms.

• A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Gave a solution to what friend .. you are talking pure nonsense .. giving no indication of what you gave a solution to ?? What solution did you give, to what ? and what solutions am I supposed to find ? You falsely claim I did neither but, I have already given you the solution to your circular fallacy problem .. which is to Cite from your source where mens rea is for Insurgency is given.

You claim your source gives mens rea for insurgency but no one can seem to find where your source states this .. thus another fantasy wild goose chase as what you claim your source says is false. .. Your source does not give mens rea for insurgency -- and this is just another made up falsehood on your part to deflect your lack of understanding of the issue .. and desperate desire to get Trump at all costs .. "ends justify the means" even if that takes us down the path of totalitarianism in some TDS Haze.

You are the one walking around in a TDS Haze. I am not the one that has that syndrome. You seem to have an incredibly short memory here. I more than once told you what your solutions were. You could apologize for all of the false claims that you have made about me, and about others, I need to include them too. Or you could go back and find the posts that you never read yourself.

You are trying to bully other people into doing your homework for you. Others have seen it. Others know that it refutes your nonsense.


Ooh! I just had another idea for a solution. You could ignore that loss for right now and support your claims for once with reliable sources.

Oh . . . wait . . there do not appear to be any reliable sources that support you.


Okay, carry on.

 

[Sargonski]

Oh, now you've gone and done it. The first thing @Sargonski doesn't want is someone to tell him to have a wonderful day, and the second thing he doesn't want is to have a wonderful day.


The MAGAs don't value integrity and truth, nor feel embarrassment and shame. Nor do they acknowledge error of judgment. It's almost like they are deadly bacteria that have no idea of the harm they do, and they just keep doing their deadly thing because that is what they are. They will be vastly more entertaining after they lose the 2024 elections, as until then they pose a real threat to America and democracy.

I said nothing about having a wonderful day .. Why do you make up this silly demonize the messenger fantasy if not for desperate desire to deflect from the Truth ?

You then follow this gibberish up with name calling - and ridiculous false accusations having nothing to do with me or anything I said - projecting this strange obsession with Trump onto me ? Don't tar me with that TDS brush por favor .. can keep that one all to yourself.

Sorry Friend -- name calling and silliness is not an argument for anything other than your lack of understanding what an argument is. The one thing you did get kind of right is that the Trump obsessed MAGA's on the right and the Trump Obsessed TDS "don't value integrity and truth nor feel embarassment and shame nor acknowledge error of judgment - its almost like they are less than human "

Holy carp mate -- that is quite the indictment of these these far left TDS progressives and far right MAGA -- think perhaps you should take log out of own eye .. and then perhaps your vision will be better .. and your mouth less in need of Soap.

 

[F1fan]

I said nothing about having a wonderful day .. Why do you make up this silly demonize the messenger fantasy if not for desperate desire to deflect from the Truth ?

Lighten up Francis.

You then follow this gibberish up with name calling - and ridiculous false accusations having nothing to do with me or anything I said - projecting this strange obsession with Trump onto me ? Don't tar me with that TDS brush por favor .. can keep that one all to yourself.

Sorry Friend -- name calling and silliness is not an argument for anything other than your lack of understanding what an argument is. The one thing you did get kind of right is that the Trump obsessed MAGA's on the right and the Trump Obsessed TDS "don't value integrity and truth nor feel embarassment and shame nor acknowledge error of judgment - its almost like they are less than human "

Holy carp mate -- that is quite the indictment of these these far left TDS progressives and far right MAGA -- think perhaps you should take log out of own eye .. and then perhaps your vision will be better .. and your mouth less in need of Soap.

You’re not a MAGA are you?

 

[McBell]

Oh, now you've gone and done it. The first thing @Sargonski doesn't want is someone to tell him to have a wonderful day, and the second thing he doesn't want is to have a wonderful day.


The MAGAs don't value integrity and truth, nor feel embarrassment and shame. Nor do they acknowledge error of judgment. It's almost like they are deadly bacteria that have no idea of the harm they do, and they just keep doing their deadly thing because that is what they are. They will be vastly more entertaining after they lose the 2024 elections, as until then they pose a real threat to America and democracy.

I am going to go with the wise age old wisdom of @Jayhawker Soule:

Spoiler: Age Old Wisdom

---> ignore-list

<yawn>

ignore-list​

</yawn>

----> ignore list

----> ignore-list

<yawn>

----> ignore-list​

</yawn>

---> ignore-list

---> ignore-list

---> ignore-list

---> ignore-list

---> ignore-list

 

[Sargonski]

Lighten up Francis.

You’re not a MAGA are you?

Of course I am not MAGA ..

"The MAGAs don't value integrity and truth, nor feel embarrassment and shame. Nor do they acknowledge error of judgment. It's almost like they are Less than Human"

and who is the "Francis" who needs to lighten up friend ? that is quite the indictment of these these far left TDS progressives and far right MAGA -- think perhaps you should take log out of own eye .. and then perhaps your vision will be better .. and your mouth less in need of Soap.

 

[Stevicus]

and who is the "Francis" who needs to lighten up friend ?

It's a reference to this scene in the movie Stripes:

 

[Sargonski]

You are the one walking around in a TDS Haze. I am not the one that has that syndrome. You seem to have an incredibly short memory here. I more than once told you what your solutions were. You could apologize for all of the false claims that you have made about me, and about others, I need to include them too. Or you could go back and find the posts that you never read yourself.

You are trying to bully other people into doing your homework for you. Others have seen it. Others know that it refutes your nonsense.


Ooh! I just had another idea for a solution. You could ignore that loss for right now and support your claims for once with reliable sources.

Oh . . . wait . . there do not appear to be any reliable sources that support you.


Okay, carry on.

I am not the one fixated on Trump friend .. no need to tar others with your "TDS" fixation. You cry out " short memory" - but is you who can't remember your solution or the problem you are trying to solve for that matter .. nor remember any of these made up false claims you claim were made against you.

- but aside from this aside from this raft of silly personal invective -- you have forgotten to support your claim ?! - show us where in your link mens rea for the charge of insurrection is given for Trump and/or the Protest leaders .. and cite where the "Bogus interpretation" is addressed .. .. do you not understand how to cut and paste or were these just more false claims ..

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not the one fixated on Trump friend .. no need to tar others with your "TDS" fixation. You cry out " short memory" - but is you who can't remember your solution or the problem you are trying to solve for that matter .. nor remember any of these made up false claims you claim were made against you.

- but aside from this aside from this raft of silly personal invective -- you have forgotten to support your claim ?! - show us where in your link mens rea for the charge of insurrection is given for Trump and/or the Protest leaders .. and cite the "Bogus interpretation" is addressed .. or were these just more false claims ..

Your posts here belie that claim. You do not need to mention him, but an irrational defense of him is no different than an irrational attack on him. That indicates a serious case of TDS.

And unlike you I did support my claims. Others have seen it and commented on it. You cannot even refute it because you keep showing that you never read the linked article that I quoted from. If you had read it and I was in a rational person would have quoted and linked it themselves.

Your behavior here tells us that you never read it. You merely want others to do your homework for you and silly bullying tactics will not work.


You can apologize for all of your previous false claims and ask politely for the link. I will gladly give it then. Or you could do your own homework. It is still here. I did my homework when I found the link, read it, understood it, quoted from it and linked it so that others could do the same.

 

[Sargonski]

Your posts here belie that claim. You do not need to mention him, but an irrational defense of him is no different than an irrational attack on him. That indicates a serious case of TDS.

And unlike you I did support my claims. Others have seen it and commented on it. You cannot even refute it because you keep showing that you never read the linked article that I quoted from. If you had read it and I was in a rational person would have quoted and linked it themselves.

Your behavior here tells us that you never read it. You merely want others to do your homework for you and silly bullying tactics will not work.


You can apologize for all of your previous false claims and ask politely for the link. I will gladly give it then. Or you could do your own homework. It is still here. I did my homework when I found the link, read it, understood it, quoted from it and linked it so that others could do the same.

Look friend - these false unsupported claims and personal invective is not an argument .. and in the midst of all this fallacious deflection .. you have forgotten to support your latest false claim ?!

Show us where in your link mens rea for the charge of insurrection is given for Trump and/or the Protest leaders .. and cite where the "Bogus interpretation" is addressed .. .. do you not understand how to cut and paste or were these just more false claims ..

Neither you nor any of these others you plead to have shown where in your article it says what you claim - a falsehood on top of falsehood.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Look friend - these false unsupported claims and personal invective is not an argument .. and in the midst of all this fallacious deflection .. you have forgotten to support your latest false claim ?!

Show us where in your link mens rea for the charge of insurrection is given for Trump and/or the Protest leaders .. and cite where the "Bogus interpretation" is addressed .. .. do you not understand how to cut and paste or were these just more false claims ..

Neither you nor any of these others you plead to have shown where in your article it says what you claim - a falsehood on top of falsehood.

When you begin to support your claims you can demand that others support theirs. And I did support my claims. The articles are still there. But every day that you avoid doing your homework we get further and further away from the articles.

If you want to demand a link to what you can readily find for yourself you need to make a sincere apology for your earlier false claims./

Otherwise you can kick rocks.

 

[F1fan]

I am not the one fixated on Trump friend ..

You defend the threat that Trump and MAGA poses to America and democracy. You claim not to be a MAGA, but you seem you seem to act like MAGA. You remind me of people who vote for Trump, but won't put a bumper sticker on their car or wear a MAGA hat. They want what MAGA represents but not admitting their supoprt.

no need to tar others with your "TDS" fixation. You cry out " short memory" - but is you who can't remember your solution or the problem you are trying to solve for that matter .. nor remember any of these made up false claims you claim were made against you.

It's things like this that defend MAGA and Trump. It's as if recognizing the fraud and threat of Trump is a bad thing. It's called gas lighting, and it doesn't work. It just reveals what you are.

- but aside from this aside from this raft of silly personal invective -- you have forgotten to support your claim ?! - show us where in your link mens rea for the charge of insurrection is given for Trump and/or the Protest leaders .. and cite where the "Bogus interpretation" is addressed .. .. do you not understand how to cut and paste or were these just more false claims ..

More of your copying Trump's erratic lingo. No coherent thoughts. No discourse.

 

[Sargonski]

You defend the threat that Trump and MAGA poses to America and democracy. You claim not to be a MAGA, but you seem you seem to act like MAGA. You remind me of people who vote for Trump, but won't put a bumper sticker on their car or wear a MAGA hat. They want what MAGA represents but not admitting their supoprt.

It's things like this that defend MAGA and Trump. It's as if recognizing the fraud and threat of Trump is a bad thing. It's called gas lighting, and it doesn't work. It just reveals what you are.

More of your copying Trump's erratic lingo. No coherent thoughts. No discourse.

Another post of ridiculous false nonsense and personal invective ? I have not defended Trump - nor the Threat he poses to Democracy ? This is made up nonsense in your head. I have never been "MAGA" .. and my arguments against Trump are way better than yours.

The one fixated on Trump is You friend... any time someone says something you disagree with .. you run around crying "MAGA MAGA, MAGA" .. as you have done above - nonsensical Ad Hom Fallacy .. followed by you crying out "No coherent thought - No Discourse"

Where is your argument friend .. where is the "Coherent thought" coherent discourse ? all you have done is name call .. and run around crying MAGA MAGA ? .. we were discussing mens rea .. you were supposed to be coming up with mens rea for insurrection friend .. but so far you have failed .. siding with the totalitarian path but, unable to justify your position.

and one last time .. in case you forgot already .. My arguments against Trump .. way way way better than the woke joke cancel crowd.

 

[metis]

Not now. Back then things were looser. I would look at all of the amendment and not focus on any particular part of it. I was just correcting the "well regulated" claim. That was when our nation was still a baby. Our army was almost nonexistent. The purpose of the amendment was to ensure that we had a means of defense for this country. Back the a "well regulated militia" was necessary for the security of a free State. That is no longer needed and is highly likely never going to be needed again. The potential threat to our country from armed invaders is over (though I am keeping my eyes on Canada). When one looks at it in its totality the amendment is no longer needed and therefore there is no longer a reason not to infringe (which we already do to quite an extent) ones ability to keep and bear arms.

• A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

These militias were typically made up of "Minutemen" and, generally speaking, they were trained and led.

 

[Subduction Zone]

These militias were typically made up of "Minutemen" and, generally speaking, they were trained and led.

Yes, but I am pretty sure that they had their muskets before they began training. For many at that time game was an important supplemental source of protein for many. At that time a well armed public was needed for defense of the country. We no longer have that need. If January 6 taught us anything a well armed public may now be a threat to democracy.

 

[F1fan]

Another post of ridiculous false nonsense and personal invective ? I have not defended Trump - nor the Threat he poses to Democracy ? This is made up nonsense in your head. I have never been "MAGA" .. and my arguments against Trump are way better than yours.

You seem oblivious to your own posts.

The one fixated on Trump is You friend...

Trump poses a real threat and we have to pay attention to threats. Israel wasn't paying attention to Hamas and look what happened. Your insistance that rational minds talking out against Trump is some odd fixation, and THAT is how you support Trump. You attacking anyone who is critical is your passive MAGAism at play.

Where is your argument friend .. where is the "Coherent thought" coherent discourse ? all you have done is name call .. and run around crying MAGA MAGA ? .. we were discussing mens rea .. you were supposed to be coming up with mens rea for insurrection friend .. but so far you have failed .. siding with the totalitarian path but, unable to justify your position.

Incoherent ranting. Oh the irony.

and one last time .. in case you forgot already .. My arguments against Trump .. way way way better than the woke joke cancel crowd.

Yet you attack those who are actually critical.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, but I am pretty sure that they had their muskets before they began training.

Not only muskets, but also rifles.

We no longer have that need.

Need can arise unexpectedly.
This is seen in other countries.
We've been fortunate.

If January 6 taught us anything a well armed public may now be a threat to democracy.

A well armed public could be necessary
to counter a violent overthrow attempt
by MAGAs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not only muskets, but also rifles.

I was not sure if rifled barrels had been invented yet. I should have known though since it is very difficult to hunt with an unrifled barrel.

Need can arise unexpectedly.
This is seen in other countries.
We've been fortunate.

A well armed public could be necessary
to counter a violent overthrow attempt
by MAGAs.

Possibly. I would have argued strongly against that before January 6. But that showed that a large enough group of people can be misled by a someone whose goals were tyranny. So I might have to rethink that argument.

 

[Sargonski]

You seem oblivious to your own posts.

Trump poses a real threat and we have to pay attention to threats. Israel wasn't paying attention to Hamas and look what happened. Your insistance that rational minds talking out against Trump is some odd fixation, and THAT is how you support Trump. You attacking anyone who is critical is your passive MAGAism at play.

Incoherent ranting. Oh the irony.

Yet you attack those who are actually critical.

" Your oblivious" the poster cries .. not managing to state to what. Obvlivious to what friend ? = incoherent ranting.

How can one make sense out of anything you say - when you don't state what you are saying -- unable to even qualify your insults?

"Passive MAGAism" What does this loopy doopy made up nonsense mean ? I told you my arguments against Trump are way better than yours ... and of course I attack stupid arguments .. and recognize that even Trump is entitled to Rule of Law Protections that you wish to remove - not just for Trump but for anyone who would dare protest - is this Trump induced blind rage .. completely blind and oblivious to the consequences of such action.

So best you take the log out of your own obvlivious eyes prior picking speck out of your brothers eye and stop projecting your failings onto others.

 

[Sargonski]

Not only muskets, but also rifles.

Need can arise unexpectedly.
This is seen in other countries.
We've been fortunate.

A well armed public could be necessary
to counter a violent overthrow attempt
by MAGAs.

I was not sure if rifled barrels had been invented yet. I should have known though since it is very difficult to hunt with an unrifled barrel.

Possibly. I would have argued strongly against that before January 6. But that showed that a large enough group of people can be misled by a someone whose goals were tyranny. So I might have to rethink that argument.

Well lads - certainly one thing we can agree on is the idea that bunch of unarmed protesters taking over a single Gov't building have some chance of taking over the USA - taking over the Gov't - is way off the Chicken Ranch loopy doopy. We have Police in this nation - Swat Teams if necessary to prevent such a thing - and if that was not successfull -- bring in the National Guard -- and if that not helping --- the army.

"A large enough group of people can be misled by someone who's goals were Tyranny" -- This is dead on point - as clearly this "Insurrection/ the sky is falling" trope has misled a huge number of people .. more on one side but, on both sides of the fence .. and the goal was clearly Tyranny .. and that special "Someone" - succeeded in that goal - the fruits of which we are already seeing at the "Cop City" protests.

Those who dissent from the propaganda narrative du jour of the Tyrrant are Persecuted - their liberty restricted and/or revoked - rule of law protections removed - trial by 3rd world kangaroo style - the normal constitutionally protected rights and justice unavailable to those demonized as "Terrorists"

Yes Lads -- is an old Tyrrant Trick -- oldest in the book .. using fear of some external or internal threat (or both in this case) to trick the citizens into giving up liberty for security .. you boys have heard Ol Ben "Those who would give up liberty for temp security deserve neighter" -- and what about this slogan "Give me liberty or Death"

Thing about Martial Law -- which allows for temporary restrictions on liberty and essential liberty -- is that it is 1) Temporary 2) requires extremely strong justification .. a real demonstrable and not hypothetical danger to the nation .. such as Russia massing at our borders .. or massive civil war - with parts of the army on the side of the freedom fighters .. fighting the tyrannical oppression.

Somehow - the people so misled - to have allowed this Police State Power Grab to 1) be permanent, 2) had no legitimate justification in the first place . the jokers trying to attach new definitions to words like "Insurrection" -- make the Facist legislation fit somehow will try the misled.

"Insurrection" - how on earth were these unarmed insurrectionists taking over one building going to defeat the Police and the army ? How were the Cop City protesters going to do this.

What ? .. whats this ? Ohhhhh .. did not put that one together I see. the justification bar required for the removal of legally protected rights (Marshal Law) - was not required to achieve the same designation for the Cop City Protesters .. way down the slippery slope the slide.

Yes .. those that have been misled were no chumps in many cases .. on both sides of the fence.. but misled they were .. tricked by Police State Tyranny tactics.. of quite a complex and insidious variety .. not easy to spot at all .. few are going to thing things through .. to realize the consequences of this Precedent in Law .. "Liberalization of the Espionage Act" you could call it .. and the "Rico" - at the same time.

One day you lads will be upset by something .. may find yourself in a protest .. where someone uses a racist slur - pushes against a barrier which gives way hurting some people - the requisite requirement for "Terrorist" met -- subjected to the GITMO - like Treatment -- Perhaps you were out there protesting "Forced Medical Treatment" .. No ? Not out there standing for liberty ? -- don't be too hard on yourself .. I wasn't out there with a sign either .. such a lazy and complacent society we have become .. easy pickens for the Tyrrants .. and the Tyrannical Oligarchs who run this nation.