Supreme Court to Decide Whether to Kick Trump Off Ballot

[Sargonski]

The part that describes what Trump was actually involved in, a protest his LIES created, and a protest that got way out of control due to a plan to disrupt the count by a conspiracy of anti-democracy actors. These actions included federal crimes of over 1000 of Trump's supprters, most of whom have been arrested and convicted.

There never should have been a protest because there was nothing to protest. Trump lied about election fraud and his stupid followers were duped into protesting. Those who travelled to the Jan 6 protest were gullible, and wasted time and money. Those who broke in were arrested on various crimes, some minor and some severe, and they were the dumbest of the lot.

So if your questions make misleading assertions you won't be answered.

I haven't seen you post any. What are you critical of Trump about, too much orange makeup?

Irrelevant deflections.

Good grief man .. your whole post is an irrelevant deflection .. from the fact that what ever evils you wish to ascribe to the Capitol Protesters .. it did not rise to the level of domestic terrorism .. such that this becomes the bar .. and in fact it has become the bar ... Cop City Protest .. took but a few months for that prededent to slide down the slippery slope into totalitarian Police State Land .. and that is what you - my F1 Friend - don't seem to understand

You realize that as soon as you get the label "terrorist" -- GITMO Justice kicks in right ? have you any idea .. what so ever what this means ? aside from some TDS going on .. Fixated on the Orange man .. Willing to throw out the rule book to get that Bad Boy -Reality TV Star .. do the Kangaroo walk down to 3rd world court land .. increase Gov't power .. big .. towards this Police State collectivist cancel culture wunderland.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Good grief man .. your whole post is an irrelevant deflection .. from the fact that what ever evils you wish to ascribe to the Capitol Protesters .. it did not rise to the level of domestic terrorism .. such that this becomes the bar .. and in fact it has become the bar ... Cop City Protest .. took but a few months for that prededent to slide down the slippery slope into totalitarian Police State Land .. and that is what you - my F1 Friend - don't seem to understand

You realize that as soon as you get the label "terrorist" -- GITMO Justice kicks in right ? have you any idea .. what so ever what this means ? aside from some TDS going on .. Fixated on the Orange man .. Willing to throw out the rule book to get that Bad Boy -Reality TV Star .. do the Kangaroo walk down to 3rd world court land .. increase Gov't power .. big .. towards this Police State collectivist cancel culture wunderland.

What are you talking about? They tried to oppose an election for the top spot in the country using threats and violence. And sorry, once one becomes violent it is no longer a "protest". It is a riot at the very least. This was an attempted insurrection. Granted, it failed miserably but that does not change the aims or motives of the people behind it. And Trump knows that he has many followers that fall into the category of "useful idiots". He will thank them, he will even pardon some of them. But if he is threatened at all because of them he will immediately cut ties with them and even sacrifice them to get his own sorry butt out of trouble.

 

[F1fan]

Good grief man .. your whole post is an irrelevant deflection .. from the fact that what ever evils you wish to ascribe to the Capitol Protesters .. it did not rise to the level of domestic terrorism .. such that this becomes the bar .. and in fact it has become the bar ... Cop City Protest .. took but a few months for that prededent to slide down the slippery slope into totalitarian Police State Land .. and that is what you - my F1 Friend - don't seem to understand

You realize that as soon as you get the label "terrorist" -- GITMO Justice kicks in right ? have you any idea .. what so ever what this means ? aside from some TDS going on .. Fixated on the Orange man .. Willing to throw out the rule book to get that Bad Boy -Reality TV Star .. do the Kangaroo walk down to 3rd world court land .. increase Gov't power .. big .. towards this Police State collectivist cancel culture wunderland.

My oh my, when you get emotional you pour it all out into your posts.

 

[Riders]

The Colorado case has finished and the judge will likely return the judgment some time next week. If it is judged a valid complaint and Trump is removed, then it is expected (like 100%) that Trump will apeal. If the appeals court upholds the judgment, then Trump will surely apveal to the Supreme Court, and that is where the sausage will be made. It will likely be a fast ruling since primaries are coming soon, and ballots for 2-024 need to be designed and printed.

Minnesota is also hearing a removal case. If these removals are upheld the question is will the ruling apply to all states. States have pretty broad authority over their elections. But how the SC rules for the election in a few states shold apply to all 50 states since the question is a USA constitution issue. I am guessing this issue will be resolved by March, before Trump's first criminal trial.

If Trump is removed from the ballot will we see Trump supporters become violent? At some point even Trump supporters will get tired of the drama, and want to move on. By guess is they will need a replacement "God" to follow, and who will that be?

Pence?

 

[Riders]

If Trumps criminal trial does not start till March, he probably won't have time to run.

 

[Sargonski]

What are you talking about? They tried to oppose an election for the top spot in the country using threats and violence. And sorry, once one becomes violent it is no longer a "protest". It is a riot at the very least. This was an attempted insurrection. Granted, it failed miserably but that does not change the aims or motives of the people behind it. And Trump knows that he has many followers that fall into the category of "useful idiots". He will thank them, he will even pardon some of them. But if he is threatened at all because of them he will immediately cut ties with them and even sacrifice them to get his own sorry butt out of trouble.

Fail - there was no legitimate chance of taking over the ship .. nor did this act rise to the bar of "Terrorism" - It was a protest that got out of hand .. as protests often do.. that it was a Gov't building does not mean that would they have succeeded in taking over that building .. they would have taken over the Gov't. .. this is an idiocy trope .. a major false paradigm .. anathema to the constututional republic.. what you are suggesting .. not the Capital Protesters. You are the one subverting democracy .. or in favor of such authoritarian Gov't tactic .. These protestors did no such subversion .. had no chance of taking over the Gov't .. Which .. generally requires military complicity on some level .. but in what fantasy land does it not .. would be your first question ?

Got it friend ? --- In what land of fantasy .. do we manage to take over the US Gov't - without the military on our side .. or at least a good portion of it .. enough to stare down the other parts. This is not an insurrection of a ship Friend .. but insurrection of a Nation .. already the inappropriateness of the word "insurrection" laid bare.

So set the Bar Here -- "Domestic Terrorism" -- at which point the Police State -- GITMO- 3rd world Kangaroo court rules apply .. Got have Martial Law measures so severe and scary was the enemy at the Gate .. to the State.

Except you forgot one thing friend --- Martial law statutes are temporary .. where as you Just done make it permanent precident .. sliding down that slope .. on an authoritarian hope.

 

[Sargonski]

My oh my, when you get emotional you pour it all out into your posts.

Sorry Friend -- didn't mean to hurt you ... didn't mean to make you cry .. doing that GITMO sigh ..

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If Trumps criminal trial does not start till March, he probably won't have time to run.

I'm sure that I'm not the only person crossing their fingers and hoping that will be the case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Fail - there was no legitimate chance of taking over the ship .. nor did this act rise to the bar of "Terrorism" - It was a protest that got out of hand .. as protests often do.. that it was a Gov't building does not mean that would they have succeeded in taking over that building .. they would have taken over the Gov't. .. this is an idiocy trope .. a major false paradigm .. anathema to the constututional republic.. what you are suggesting .. not the Capital Protesters. You are the one subverting democracy .. or in favor of such authoritarian Gov't tactic .. These protestors did no such subversion .. had no chance of taking over the Gov't .. Which .. generally requires military complicity on some level .. but in what fantasy land does it not .. would be your first question ?

That does not matter. By that standard the attacks of 9/11 were not terrorist since they had no hopes of defeating the US or even changing the policies that they did not like. The idea that a "legitimate chance" is needed for it not to be an attempted insurrection is pure nonsense. And I am being overly kind there. The people involved thought that they had a chance. Yes, the people involved were idiots. That does not change a thing.

Got it friend ? --- In what land of fantasy .. do we manage to take over the US Gov't - without the military on our side .. or at least a good portion of it .. enough to stare down the other parts. This is not an insurrection of a ship Friend .. but insurrection of a Nation .. already the inappropriateness of the word "insurrection" laid bare.

Again, talk to the insurrectionists. Even though they failed they were a threat. If they were not so incompetent we could have had quite a few dead congresspeople. You really should not accuse others of living in a fantasy land. They were a severe danger to our leaders.

So set the Bar Here -- "Domestic Terrorism" -- at which point the Police State -- GITMO- 3rd world Kangaroo court rules apply .. Got have Martial Law measures so severe and scary was the enemy at the Gate .. to the State.

Except you forgot one thing friend --- Martial law statutes are temporary .. where as you Just done make it permanent precident .. sliding down that slope .. on an authoritarian hope.

Sorry, but if you cannot be honest there is no point in having a discussion. When you claim "kangaroo court" you put a huge burden of proof upon yourself. You have to be incredibly ignorant not to realize that this will have to go all the way to the USSC. And that is the only possible "kangaroo court" since far too many of the justices were appointed by Republicans and several of them lied to get there.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If Trumps criminal trial does not start till March, he probably won't have time to run.

Trials. There are three oops, four. See even I cannot keep track of all of them:

Tracking the Trump criminal cases: Latest on legal charges and key players

A definitive guide to the key players and legal risks in the four criminal probes of the former president.

www.politico.com

The Georgia trial may start even sooner. At least three of the defendants have made deals. And they are high placed officials. Deals are not given out unless a person agrees to the testimony that they will give ahead of time. They will have statements taken under oath the even if they renege at the last minute can be used against Trump.

 

[F1fan]

Pence?

He dropped out last week. Nikki Haley is moving up and is equal to DeSantis in Iowa polls. Trump still has a 40 point lead.

If Trumps criminal trial does not start till March, he probably won't have time to run.

He has been attending his fraud trial in New York but still doing rallies. They aren't attracting big numbers like they used to. He will be required to attend the criminal trials. He doesn't have to attend his fraud trial since it is a civil offense, but he has been, and the reason is likely that it involves his company. He has already lost the case and the testimonies now are about how bad the fraud was, and how much the penalty will be. It could ruin Trump. He will lose all the properties in New York as they will be liquidated, and the money used to pay off creditors and fines. We won't know how much the penalty is until the judge rules. In any event this is the end of Trump in New York. It's over.

I'm sure that I'm not the only person crossing their fingers and hoping that will be the case.

Trump seems to have the die hard conservatives locked up already. We just don't know how many never-Trumpers there are, and if they will show up to vote or not. In 2020 many conservatives did not vote for a president, just the rest of their ballot. It's a risk. Biden isn't popular among democrats, so it might be a low turnout election and the most dedicated will make the difference.

 

[Sargonski]

That does not matter. By that standard the attacks of 9/11 were not terrorist since they had no hopes of defeating the US or even changing the policies that they did not like. The idea that a "legitimate chance" is needed for it not to be an attempted insurrection is pure nonsense. And I am being overly kind there. The people involved thought that they had a chance. Yes, the people involved were idiots. That does not change a thing.


Again, talk to the insurrectionists. Even though they failed they were a threat. If they were not so incompetent we could have had quite a few dead congresspeople. You really should not accuse others of living in a fantasy land. They were a severe danger to our leaders.

Sorry, but if you cannot be honest there is no point in having a discussion. When you claim "kangaroo court" you put a huge burden of proof upon yourself. You have to be incredibly ignorant not to realize that this will have to go all the way to the USSC. And that is the only possible "kangaroo court" since far too many of the justices were appointed by Republicans and several of them lied to get there.

Who is the one being dishonest .. I explained "kangaroo cout" . the fact that you have no idea what was being explained to you .. is not a function of dishonesty .. The term insurrection is ridiculous - it would need the military . Leaders in severe danger does not take over the Gov't .. ..take over the nation .. and there was never any harm came to any of "Our Leaders" .. the Captain of the Ship not included.

This is nonsense ... Ship USA was not in danger of being taken over by a foreign invader .. nor an internal invader .. OK .. good .. because the second part has little to do with Trump .. and that is the labeling of these people "Terrorists" then prosecuting the case under this auspicies - invoking the espionage act - GITMO - kangaroo show.

What did you think the point of invoking the Terrorist designation .. "insurgency designation" was .. if not to avail the use of excess power ?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who is the one being dishonest .. I explained "kangaroo cout" . the fact that you have no idea what was being explained to you .. is not a function of dishonesty .. The term insurrection is ridiculous - it would need the military . Leaders in severe danger does not take over the Gov't .. ..take over the nation .. and there was never any harm came to any of "Our Leaders" .. the Captain of the Ship not included.

This is nonsense ... Ship USA was not in danger of being taken over by a foreign invader .. nor an internal invader .. OK .. good .. because the second part has little to do with Trump .. and that is the labeling of these people "Terrorists" then prosecuting the case under this auspicies - invoking the espionage act - GITMO - kangaroo show.

What did you think the point of invoking the Terrorist designation .. "insurgency designation" was .. if not to avail the use of excess power ?

Please, you are sounding like a creationist now when you claim to have explained something. Just because you do not like a procedure does not make it a kangaroo court.

And you are just like creationists in other ways too, just like they keep moving the goal posts to abiogenesis and the Big Bang you are doing the same with the insurrection attempt. The fact that it had no chance of succeeding does not mean that it was not an insurrection attempt.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Did you miss this part in the amendment? "...shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

There is also this. A person does not have to committed acts of violence to have 'engaged in insurrection.

The precedent likewise confirms that one can “engage” in insurrection without personally committing violent acts. Neither Kenneth Worthy nor Couy Griffin were accused of engaging in violence, yet both were ruled to be disqualified because they knowingly and voluntarily aided violent insurrections. These rulings are consistent with the views of Attorney General Henry Stanbery, who opined in 1867 that when a person has “incited others to engage in [insurrection or] rebellion, he must come under the disqualification.” President Andrew Johnson and his Cabinet approved that interpretation, and Johnson directed officers commanding the Southern military districts to follow it.​

​

The precedent for 14th Amendment disqualification - CREW | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington

At least eight public officials have been formally adjudicated to be disqualified and barred from public office under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment since its ratification in 1868.

www.citizensforethics.org

And how did Trump give them aid?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And how did Trump give them aid?

By not doing his job. You know, the one that he swore to do under oath.

 

[Wandering Monk]

And how did Trump give them aid?

By calling for the immediate release of all insurrectionists who have been charged with or convicted of attacking the Capitol on January 6.

By failing to deploy the National Guard for three hours during the attack on the Capitol.

By telling the people who attacked the Capitol, 'We love you; you're very special."

By telling the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by" during the first presidential debate in 2020. They later attacked the Capitol. Several right wing militia members have been convicted of seditious conspiracy.

 

[PureX]

"It's all a secret conspiracy against Trump" is the excuse that denies all evidence to the contrary. Like, "God wrote and assembled the Bible through the hands of men". It's tautological reasoning that defies the possibility of it's own error.

It should be no surprise that the 'inerrant Bible Christians' are also the 'inerrant Trump' believers. Along with those who's fragile egos simply can't accept the possibility of their being wrong.

 

[David1967]

Let the voters decide. If the Supreme Court were to throw a candidate off the ballot, especially one that has a better than average chance of winning, it will certainly be perceived as corruption by said candidates supporters. IMHO

 

[Stevicus]

This was an article from a couple of days ago:

Can Trump be on the ballot in 2024? It can hinge on the meaning of 'insurrection'

Can Donald Trump run for president again after his role in the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack? The answer may depend on the definition of insurrection.

apnews.com

The two-sentence clause in the 14th Amendment has been used only a handful of times since the years after the Civil War.

Because of that, there’s almost no case law defining its terms, including what would constitute an “insurrection.” While people have argued about whether to call Jan. 6 an insurrection ever since the days following the attack, the debate in court this week has been different — whether those who ratified the amendment in 1868 would call it one.

“Insurrection might be in the eye of the beholder,” Minnesota Supreme Court Chief Justice Natalie Hudson concluded after statements from both sides.

A day earlier, an Indiana University law professor, Gerard Magliocca, sat in a Denver courtroom and described his research into Section Three, a subject few had delved into before he started looking into it in late 2020.

Magliocca dug into dictionary definitions of insurrection from 150 years ago — one was “the rising of people in arms against their government, or against a portion of it, or against a portion or one of its laws.”

He found an opinion from the U.S. attorney general in 1867 that former confederates should be barred from certain offices even if they simply bought bonds in the rebel government. He also found instances where Congress refused to seat elected representatives whose only violation was writing a letter to the editor backing the confederate cause or paying a son $100 to help cover his costs to join the confederate army.

So, at least as far as the legal beagles are concerned, it's still up in the air. Apparently, the amendment was only used once in the last century, according to the article quoting legal scholars:

Legal scholars were able to find just one example of the amendment being used in the last century, when it was cited to deny a seat in the House of Representatives to an anti-war socialist elected after World War I.

However, it has been used more since Jan. 6.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let the voters decide. If the Supreme Court were to throw a candidate off the ballot, especially one that has a better than average chance of winning, it will certainly be perceived as corruption by said candidates supporters. IMHO

They would be wrong in that perception.

Why do you hate justice?